Light sources

[Dracorat]

Using the DMG this time.

What's the page number on that?

 

[frankthedm]

What's the page number on that?

Sample templates and reach diagrams near the back.

 

[Artoomis]

I'm sorry, I made a typo (fixed above). Anyway, I don't think that artificially increasing the diameter of the radius is reasonable at all. And, making additional rules to simulate the proper diameter/radius better is where you completely lose the simplicity.


Not simple because I don't understand what you mean. Can you please explain it differently? Specifically, what do you mean by "at any point in time" in game terms, and "any corner" in your method when you don't use corners. You have me thinking I don't understand your method at all.

I was countering a point about using corners. When using a sword, where is the sword in your square? Everywhere, right? You can attack in anay direction at any time.

I say use the same concept for light sources as well, effectively making it that you count out from your square.

Better explanation?

 

[Infiniti2000]

I was countering a point about using corners. When using a sword, where is the sword in your square? Everywhere, right? You can attack in anay direction at any time.

I say use the same concept for light sources as well, effectively making it that you count out from your square.

Better explanation?

Yes, better. What you say makes sense logically, but it doesn't make it any easier. My point was that the wielder chooses the corner on his action. I would say it's a free action to change it, thus he's not continuously making light patterns on the wall. The corner chosen wouldn't have any other game effect, even if the light were on the sword and he was attacking with it against another square. The choosing of a square corner (grid intersection) IMO greatly simplifies the light "template".

Have you provided a description of the template you use for, say, a 5ft radius and 10ft radius light source (use an example for both a Medium and Large creature)?

 

[Felix]

Re: Bullseye Lanterns

This is where the "light source can originate anywhere within the occupied square(s) at any time" argument starts to come apart; the bullseye lantern sheds light in a cone area of effect, and if the lantern is allowed to be emanating from any corner at any period of time, then you effectively have a XX-radius light effect, and not a cone. This defeats the intent of the lantern, which is to provide a more focused, but further extending light source.

So in the bullseye lantern's case, I would have the PCs specify where the lantern is, and from which grid intersection the light effect is emanating. I suppose consistency is a desireable quality, so it wouldn't be too much to ask for the same to be applied to candles and other XX-radius light effects.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

How does 5' reach (or 10' reach with a reach weapon) work? From a corner, or from the center of the square.

Treat yoru torch like a reach weapon, and you have your answer.

 

[Felix]

How does 5' reach (or 10' reach with a reach weapon) work? From a corner, or from the center of the square.

Treat yoru torch like a reach weapon, and you have your answer.

This works fine with candles and the like, but when you get to the Bullseye lantern, it falls apart. Because light can now emanate from any corner of the square, the bullseye lantern can shine everywhere at once, instead of just shedding light in a cone.

At that point, it's a matter of whether you want to be consistent or not on how you rule light sources.

 

[Infiniti2000]

How does 5' reach (or 10' reach with a reach weapon) work? From a corner, or from the center of the square.

Treat yoru torch like a reach weapon, and you have your answer.

This is definitely not the way to go. A 10ft radius light held by a Medium creature has a 30ft diameter (diagonal) but when held by a Large creature, it is suddenly a a 35ft diameter? No. A light source should definitely not "share Space" with a creature. Treating it like reach is a big, complicated mistake.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

This is definitely not the way to go. A 10ft radius light held by a Medium creature has a 30ft diameter (diagonal) but when held by a Large creature, it is suddenly a a 35ft diameter? No. A light source should definitely not "share Space" with a creature. Treating it like reach is a big, complicated mistake.

If a light source is held or carried by a creature, how is it not sharing space?

Not that I don't recognize the insanity of the ubertorch carried by a colossal red dragon. If you'd prefer, fix the light source at the center of the creature's space (whether that is an intersection or center of a square then depends upon the size of the creature) ... measure from that point as per reach. You'll then have to argue with the actual size vs. fighting space people ... why the colossal red dragon's torch is unable to illuminate the dragon's entire area even though the dragon can choose to hold it in one corner of his space (or with reach, even hold it outside of his space ...). Characters in D&D are like electrons: sometimes they are like particles, sometimes they are like waves or fields.

And the bullseye lantern breaks the rules, just like every element of the game that requires a certain facing (beholder eyes being another example).

 

[Infiniti2000]

If a light source is held or carried by a creature, how is it not sharing space?

By sharing Space, I meant "Don't make it into something larger than a point source."

If you'd prefer, fix the light source at the center of the creature's space (whether that is an intersection or center of a square then depends upon the size of the creature)

I'd prefer to fix a point rather than assume a 5ft square (or larger) as a point source, yes. However, while using the center of a Large creature works, using the center of a Medium or even Huge creature doesn't.