lightning bolt cover?

[AGGEMAM]

Where did he get the "provides only one-half cover" from?

The tower shield is in this case considered cover, not a shield in this case. A Tower shield is a medium sized object when considered cover, therefore one-half cover.

That my 2cps anyway!

 

[AuraSeer]

The tower shield is in this case considered cover, not a shield in this case. A Tower shield is a medium sized object when considered cover, therefore one-half cover.

The tower shield is always considered cover. You can set it to anything from 1/4 cover to total cover, depending on how much of yourself you hide behind it.

Hypersmurf's point is that the Sage has offered no reasoning for this "half cover" idea. What if you were only getting half cover from the shield in the first place? Do you then not lose any benefit at all? Even worse, if you were originally using it for 1/4 cover, do you gain protection when the spread bends around it? I'm all for giving the Sage the benefit of the doubt, in most cases, but this time it looks like he pulled a ruling out of his rear.

 

[AGGEMAM]

Hypersmurf's point is that the Sage has offered no reasoning for this "half cover" idea.

That is what I was speculation about.

I'm all for giving the Sage the benefit of the doubt, in most cases, but this time it looks like he pulled a ruling out of his rear.

Perhaps, I simply offered a IMO reasonable reasoning for his reasoning.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The tower shield is in this case considered cover, not a shield in this case. A Tower shield is a medium sized object when considered cover, therefore one-half cover.

Ah, I see what you're getting at. The shield is "nearly as tall as the wielder", so against a spread effect, it's essentially the same as being "behind another creature of same size", and both provide half cover.

Since a lightning bolt can't wrap around corners, the tower shield could still provide total cover.

Right?

-Hyp.

 

[AGGEMAM]

Right?

Right !

(This may or may not have anything to do with actual rules, but it could explain the Sage's position.)

 

[DustTC]

I don't think standing behind another creature should provide cover against a fireball or lightning bolt either, but that is what the rules plainly state.

Table 8-9, PHB p. 133: "behind a creature of same size" = "one-half cover" with a +2 Cover Reflex save bonus.

"Cover Reflex Save Bonus", PHB p.133: "Add this bonus to Reflex saves against attacks that affect an area, such as a red dragon's breath or a fireball."

Lightning bolt spell description, PHB p.222: "Area: 5 ft. wide to medium range (100 ft. + 10 ft./level); or 10 ft. wide to 50 ft. + 5 ft./level".

Fireball is expressly given as an example, and lightning bolt affects an area.

I can't find anything under "Area" (PHB p.149), "Line of Effect" (PHB p.150) or anywhere else that provides an exception for fireball or lightning bolt.

So by the rules, creature 2 in your example gets a +2 to its Reflex save. Anything else is house rules - warranted, maybe, but definitely house rules.

It all depends on whether you think a character is cover or not for these types of energy attacks. I can see how someone standing in front of someone else gives cover against an arrow. I cannot see how it matters one bit when there's a big lightning bolt that would simply (the way I envision fantasy, YMMV) fry through whatever corporal being that's in it's path (unless it was a stone golem ).

Anyway, this is one of these situations where you have to be sensible and reject a too stringent interpretation of the rules on the basis that it would just be plain annoying and bog the game down. After all, if lightning bolts go through the players, they go through the monsters as well. The status quo is maintained and everyone's happy (because we have less tedious calculations to do).

 

[Celtavian]

Re

The Tower Shield would only provide cover if it survived the lightning bolt.

People on the other hand conduct the lightning bolt right through them, and provide no cover. At least that is how I call it in my game.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Re: Re

The Tower Shield would only provide cover if it survived the lightning bolt.

There's an extremely good chance it will.

Let's say a 10d6 Lightning Bolt, for 35 points of damage.

As an attended item, it gets a reflex-half saving throw.

If it fails, as an object, it takes half damage. 35/2 = 17.
A tower shield has hardness 5. 17-5 = 12.
With 20 hit points, it's damaged, but intact.

If it saves, it takes half damage, then half again for being an object - D&D maths says this is a third, or 11 points. Less hardness, it takes 6 points of damage.

-Hyp.

 

[AGGEMAM]

Re: Re: Re

If it saves, it takes half damage, then half again for being an object - D&D maths says this is a third, or 11 points. Less hardness, it takes 6 points of damage.

Objects have improved evasion, so if it saves then it is no damage.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Re: Re: Re: Re

Objects have improved evasion

!?

... they do?

Do you have a source on that?

(And that's one of the funniest things I've heard today... a table is better at dodging than a 9th level Rogue? )

-Hyp.