D&D General Limiting Utility Cantrips

[AK81]

Yes I agree that limiting certain cantrips has nothing to do with balance. There is nothing wrong with cantrips as they are if you like them as they are.

But they can be a problem if you want certain styles of play. Like if you want darkness to matter. Of course then you would also need to limit darkvision. Which I am also for.

So for me this question isn't about balance, but how to homebrew a rule that makes your preferred play style more difficult. And how to do it without just banning it.

As the OP said, it is just utility cantrips that makes their play style more difficult. So how can we limit it fairly without totally taking away their usefulness?

 

[AnotherGuy]

I see two solutions...

* Make Cantrips 1st level spells, 1st level spells become 2nd level, 2nd level become 3rd...etc
Optional Rule: You increase the damage done by the new 2nd level spells onwards by 1 die. In other words magic missile becomes 1d6 as opposed to 1d4, fireball becomes 1d8 as opposed to 1d6.

* Skill Check to cast. Failure means you burn a spell slot, if no spell slot available you burn a HD, if no HD you gain a level of exhaustion.

 

[HappyHubris]

i haven't really noticed those discussions much, what kinds of challenges are we talking about here? i mean, i know about Light removing the need for torches and Mage Hand being able to mess with traps but none of the other cantrips jump out at me as a huge issue for 'bypassing challenges'

personally i'm more on the side that it's the damage cantrips that need to be toned down.

Dumb question: How does light replace a torch when you cannot target anything worn or held?

 

[Baron Opal II]

Dumb question: How does light replace a torch when you cannot target anything worn or held?

The light cantrip makes an object glow. The fighter's breastplate, gauntlet, spearhead, and the like are common targets IMC. It frees up a hand.

Maybe I don't understand your question.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Dumb question: How does light replace a torch when you cannot target anything worn or held?

if you're referring to the 2024 rules for the Light cantrip, they specify 'cannot target anything worn or held by someone else' meaning you can use the spell on anything worn or held by yourself, and most GMs i imagine would be more than willing to let you use it on something worn or held by someone else if they're a willing recipient.

 

[HappyHubris]

if you're referring to the 2024 rules for the Light cantrip, they specify 'cannot target anything worn or held by someone else' meaning you can use the spell on anything worn or held by yourself, and most GMs i imagine would be more than willing to let you use it on something worn or held by someone else if they're a willing recipient.

Ahh thank you. I thought all worn or held items were immune.

 

[Stormonu]

To be fair, I prefer attack roll cantrips. I don't know what it is, but I've seen so many enemies save against Sacred Flame I think Clerics would be better off throwing rocks at their enemies!

You're not imagining it. DCs are 8 + spellcasting bonus. Attack rolls are essentially 10 + spellcasting bonus, so you often have a +10% chance of success using attack roll vs. saving throw.

 

[ezo]

You're not imagining it. DCs are 8 + spellcasting bonus. Attack rolls are essentially 10 + spellcasting bonus, so you often have a +10% chance of success using attack roll vs. saving throw.

Yep, so really the only thing to consider is with failed saves come riders often... so they might be worth it, or they affect multiple targets. It's a balancing game as to which is better for a situation.

Personally, I prefer save cantrips, but builds around attack cantrips can be super effective of course.

 

[HappyHubris]

I don’t think most impulses to limit cantrips are really about balance. It’s just that some people don’t like it when magic is casual, but they acknowledge that removing cantrips entirely would be a balance issue. So they’re looking for a way to make even mage hand feel like a big-ish deal without making wizards a 1/day character.

Finding the sweet spot is tough.

This feels like a homebrew thing, to be honest. If you want your world to be less magical than RAW, you're going to have to move away from RAW.

Baseline rules aren't good for divergent experiences, whether that is a grimdark survival style of dungeon attrition or a low magic world where spells require sacrifice.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Mending is the only one I limit, mostly for worldbuilding purposes (Micah Sweet would be proud!). I have the magic unravel after 24-hours, restoring it to the original state. I don't sweat a lot of world building implications, but instantaneous and permanent fixing of broken items really does change things beyond what I want them to be, even for a world such as Eberron.

Oh, Guidance as well. You can only benefit from Guidance once per short rest. I added scaling and removed concentration though.