Lingering Wrath to strong?

[monboesen]

Lingering Wrath is a new Heroic Tier feat from Martial Power that lets a Tiefling Fighter apply his Infernal Wrath bonus against a marked enemy until the enemy is dead, no longer marked or the Tiefling unconscious.

That will commonly be +1 to hit and +3 to damage against that enemy until the enemy is dead. Thats a decent feat.

But how does is stack with the Ferocious Rebuke and Fiery Rebuke feats. Both of those change the numbers of Infernal Wrath and suddenly the whole package is starting to look a bit crazy.

Thats a bonus of: +1 to hit, + charisma modifier + 5 + 1/2 lvl damage per attack and push 1 square with every attack.

At 11th level, the earliest this combo is possible thats At-Will attacks at:

Hit: +5 lvl + 4 strength + 3 enhancement + 2 weapon + 1 fighter style + 1 hellfire blood +1 Infernal Wrath = +17 to hit.

Damage: [W] + 4 strength + 3 enhancement + 2 Weapon Focus + 3 charisma + 10 Infernal Wrath/Fiery Rebuke = [W] + 22 damage and pushed 1 square.


Obviously the combo is at its best vs. solo monsters, elite monsters, brutes and other monsters with many HP. But it looks mighty strong to me.

What is your verdict, the feats don't stack that way?, to strong?, or not to strong?

 

[Mort_Q]

Nice combo! Can't see any problems with it at first glance. I suspect that if it becomes too bothersome the NPCs will start finding ways to break the marked condition.

 

[Stalker0]

I think this is the tiefling equivalent of dwarven weapon training.

Tieflings have no stat bumps that help them as fighters. Infernal blood evens it up a bit when using a flaming weapon, and then this feat helps gives them an edge.

I think its a gimmey for most tiefling fighters, though I don't know how many of them will have a 16 cha, more like a 14 in my mind.

 

[monboesen]

I don't know how many of them will have a 16 cha, more like a 14 in my mind.

Well it's not really the charisma bonus that has me worried, it's the 5 + 1/2 level bonus from Fiery Rebuke. That is a HUGE damage bonus on each attack, far beyond anything I have seen in the rules so far.

 

[Ibixat]

Well it's not really the charisma bonus that has me worried, it's the 5 + 1/2 level bonus from Fiery Rebuke. That is a HUGE damage bonus on each attack, far beyond anything I have seen in the rules so far.

I'm not sure I call that huge, that is 10 damage at 11, for one target for the duration of a fight, yes it's a nice boost but only truly helpfull vs solo's or elites or brutes, anything else it will be nice but wasted vs large numbers of lower hp creatures.

At least in my mind, don't forget the ranger will generally be doing +2d8 or +9 damage against every target in the fight at this point, and the rogue +3d8 most of the time. Allowing a fighter to keep up with striker damage on one target per fight isn't really that big a deal in my view.

Although if I were the fighter in this situation I'd definately want polearm momentum, and spear push to make the pushes 2 square + knockdown.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I'm not sure I call that huge, that is 10 damage at 11, for one target for the duration of a fight, yes it's a nice boost but only truly helpfull vs solo's or elites or brutes, anything else it will be nice but wasted vs large numbers of lower hp creatures.

+10 damage on every attack against a target you care about seems pretty huge to me. It would make his damage equal or exceed the bonus strikers can get with their special features on average, which treads on their toes a lot.

I don't think there is a good comparison with dwarven or eladrin weapon training, because those only have full effect at heroic tier - in paragon tier onwards you might as well retrain to weapon focus, because that is going to be better by the time you get to epic anyway. This combination just gets better and better, and puts all other feat style damage in the shade.

Regards,

 

[monboesen]

This combination just gets better and better, and puts all other feat style damage in the shade.

That is how I see it too. At 30th level its easily +23 damage on each attack, roughly equal to +5d8.

It seems to me that it makes a encounter power (Infernal Wrath) equal or superior to most daily powers. Remember this is not a once a day deal, it is usable every single encounter. And at higher levels it may be usable several times per encounter (there is a paragon class feature that regains you the Infernal Wrath power and an epic feat that lets Tieflings use Infernal Wrath on any target that hits them with a critical)

 

[LightPhoenix]

It may not be correct, but what I would rule is...

You use your IW power, get the bonus damage from Fiery Rebuke when you use the power (per a strict reading of FR). Lingering Wrath specifies only your damage from IW, so for the rest of the encounter you only get your normal IW bonus. You've only used IW once, and thus FR only applies once.

I don't have a particular problem with Ferocious Rebuke, but the same line of reasoning could be used.

 

[Atanatotatos]

Heh. You'll throw a tantrum when you see Tempest+Pit fighter+Marked Scourge ...

 

[monboesen]

Heh. You'll throw a tantrum when you see Tempest+Pit fighter+Marked Scourge ...

Well, there is nothing stopping you from doing that AND use Lingering Wrath at the same time.....


The difference between the two is that you have to invest heavily in Wisdom to make pit fighter + marked scourge worth it. With Lingering Wrath you just have to get levels.