Nail
First Post
You might be interested in this thread, Kerrick.
List your problematic spells here
- Thread starter Kerrick
- Start date
Zurai
First Post
The problem with not being able to buff Polymorphed people, on top of polymorph not giving the benefits of being that creature, is that it makes polymorph into a worse version of Summon Monster - and summoning is already weak EDIT: As opposed to Calling; not trying to claim that Gate is a weak spell.
Jack Simth
First Post
Well, it comes back to how abuseable you want it to be.Zurai said:
If Polymorph (4th level spell) can be applied to someone and grant them spell-like abilities, then suddenly you've got a Wizard preparing Polymoph in every slot and turning everyone into Efreeti, one at a time, and harvesting 12 Wishes a day in a party of four - which is rather broken.
If Polymorph (4th level spell) can turn a melee-capable rogue into a Hydra that can get ten Sneak Attacks in with a standard action, then the spell is rather broken (current situation).
If you can make spells stick around between forms, there's going to be fairly readily abuseable combinations as you can make a character who gets all the abilities of the critter, plus a bunch from your pre-existing buff spells; it permits you to increase your CR above what it theoretically should be - at which point, it becomes a problem.
Now, other than certain problematic abilities (such as the Efreeti's three Wishes, Create Spawn effects, Dominate effects, and a few other things), if you're losing the abilities of the character it's fine to pick up the full abilities of the monster - provided the switch is based on the CR of the monster, not the hit dice. However, filtering the problematic abilities is the problem.
Even without the Su and Sp abilities, and Ex special qualities, though, there's still a lot of very useful combat forms to polymorph someone into; all that CR 12 Purple Worm loses is tremorsense, for instance; it's still a GREAT form for that fighter that's right next to the opposing mage. It's still a very, very good way to bypass most out-of-combat obstacles: Chasm? Flying forms. Water? Swim speed, coming right up. Wall? Burrow it is! Poisonous air? Elementals are immune (as are Undead, Constructs, and a few other things). Dropping such just make some forms more or less attractive than others... which is the case anyway.
Wolv0rine
First Post
Ahh well see there's your problem. If someone tried to Polymorph some/thing into something inorganic and/or unliving I'd laugh them out of the room. Polymorph into a clay golem indeed. At least pretend to be sensible and polymorph him into an umber hulk or something.Jack Simth said:
And then you have the question of duration. I think there should be two categories of transformation spells here, duration-based, and effectively-permanent (There's always an escape clause, fairy tales tell us this). Your average polymorphing is going to have a duration, and it should be long enough to be useful and short enough that you can't exactly *depend* on it. Your permanent polymorphs are going to be MUCH higher-level and turn princes into frogs and stuff like that.
Wolv0rine
First Post
And this is, really, one of the two things the spell is FOR. The other, of course, is turning raging ogres into fluffy raging bunnies or something easily squishable. But this is exactly what the spell should be doing. Not granting special powers or anything (although I'd say that if you polymorph into an ogre, or a giant, or a dragon, or a purple worm, etc.. you should be getting a nice pile of temporary physical stat gains.. Str hikes for sure), but granting special forms.Jack Simth said:
Jack Simth
First Post
A dragon, then; I suspect you get the basic point; such buffs, if translated between forms, get you out of your CR range without too much work.Wolv0rine said:Ahh well see there's your problem. If someone tried to Polymorph some/thing into something inorganic and/or unliving I'd laugh them out of the room. Polymorph into a clay golem indeed. At least pretend to be sensible and polymorph him into an umber hulk or something.
*shrug* Baleful Polymorph is pretty well balanced as-is; Fort save or lose for most opponents - fine as a 5th level spell. I've no problems with getting a permanent polymorph out of Polymorph Any Object for your fairy-tale monster curse. The brokening comes from the "You+" nature of the current Polymorph line. "You+" is fairly easy to make overpowered. Turn it into "That-", on the other hand, makes it fairly easy to balance, by limiting it based on Challenge Rating.Wolv0rine said:
Oh, definitely - even as a Summon Monster variant, Polymorph is still pretty much the final say in movement mode flexibility.Wolv0rine said:
"Summon Monster Lite" Polymorph definitely gives you the physical stats of the creature - you just, you know, lose a bunch of the stuff you could normally do with it in your normal form, as you no longer have access to those feats, skills, and class features.Wolv0rine said:
Kerrick
First Post
It's a 4th level spell. If you want to be able to retain existing spells, or gain Su and Sp abilities, you need a higher-level version - maybe greater polymorph (L7). Shapechange, of course, does this too. Greater poly actually doesn't sound like a bad idea - you could either cast it on yourself and gain Su abilities, or cast it on another (willing) person and grant them Ex abilities only.
That's the difference between polymorph self and baneful polymorph.
QFT. And then all the powergamers got a hold of it and abused the hell out of it, and we ended up with a massive rewrite. Course, once I get done with it, it'll be massively rewritten again...
Oh yeah.. I didn't mention this one, did I? I got into a discussion on another board with someone about this spell, and I came up with a fix - it's polymorph any OBJECT, not polymorph anyTHING. Therefore, exclude living creatures - you can change one object into another object (with duration being based on the severity of the change). You can't change objects into creatures or vice versa, nor can you change creatures into other creatures. This would likely drop the spell a level or two, but hey - if we add greater polymorph to take its place, who cares?
Kerrick
First Post
Antimagic Field
[sblock]Abjuration
Level: Clr 8, Sor/Wiz 6
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 10 ft.
Area: 10-ft.-radius emanation, centered on you
Duration: 10 minutes/level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: See below
An invisible barrier surrounds you and moves with you. The space within this barrier is impervious to most magical effects, including spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. Likewise, it prevents the functioning of most nonepic magic items or spells within its confines.
An antimagic field has can suppress any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it. The caster of the field must make a caster level check against the spell or effect when it is used within, brought into, or cast into the area; if the caster level check succeeds, the spell or effect is suppressed. Time spent within an antimagic field counts against the suppressed spell’s duration.
Summoned creatures of any type and incorporeal undead wink out if they enter an antimagic field. They reappear in the same spot once the field goes away. Time spent winked out counts normally against the duration of the conjuration that is maintaining the creature. If you cast antimagic field in an area occupied by a summoned creature that has spell resistance, you must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) against the creature’s spell resistance to make it wink out. (The effects of instantaneous conjurations are not affected by an antimagic field because the conjuration itself is no longer in effect, only its result.)
A normal creature can enter the area, as can normal missiles. Any magical weapons or armor brought into the field must make a Will save or have their magical abilities be suppressed while within the field, even if they exit and reenter. Magic weapons that do not function magically within the field are still weapons (and masterwork weapons at that). The spell has no effect on golems and other constructs that are imbued with magic during their creation process and are thereafter self-supporting (unless they have been summoned, in which case they are treated like any other summoned creatures). Elementals, corporeal undead, and outsiders are likewise unaffected unless summoned. These creatures’ spell-like or supernatural abilities, however, may be temporarily nullified by the field. Dispel magic does not remove the field, though disjunction might.
Two or more antimagic fields sharing any of the same space have no effect on each other. Certain spells, such as wall of force, prismatic sphere, and prismatic wall, remain unaffected by antimagic field (see the individual spell descriptions). Artifacts, epic spells, and deities are unaffected by mortal magic such as this. Should a creature be larger than the area enclosed by the barrier, any part of it that lies outside the barrier is unaffected by the field.
Arcane Material Component: A pinch of powdered iron or iron filings.[/sblock]
Darkness
[sblock]Evocation [Darkness]
Level: Brd 3, Clr 3, Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium or Touch
Area or Target: 20-ft. radius or object touched
Duration: 10 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
This spell can be cast either on a point in the air or on an object. In either case, darkness falls over the area of effect. All creatures in the area are considered blind (-2 to AC, no Dex bonus to AC, move is limited to half speed, and -4 to Search checks and most Strength- and Dex-based skills), but they also gain total concealment (50% miss chance). Low-light vision does not enable a creature to see through the darkness, but darkvision reduces the blackness to shadowy dimness (can see up to 5 feet, but creatures in that area have concealment; anything beyond 5 feet has total concealment). Spells like true seeing enable them to see normally, and creatures with blindsense suffer no penalty.
If the spell is cast on a point in the air, it is immobile. If it is cast on an object, it is tied to that object and can be moved.
Normal lights (torches, candles, lanterns, and so forth) are incapable of brightening the area, as are light spells of lower level. Higher level light spells are not affected by darkness.
If darkness is cast on a small object that is then placed inside or under a lightproof covering, the spell’s effect is blocked until the covering is removed.
Darkness counters or dispels any light spell of equal or lower spell level.
Arcane Material Component: A bit of bat fur and either a drop of pitch or a piece of coal.
Changes made: Level adjusted, and the spell is actual darkness, not "shadowy illumination". Darkvision grants limited sight in the darkness.
(Bumping this up to L3 also opens some room for a lesser spell that does create "shadowy illumination", like circle of shadows - see below.)
Circle of Shadows
Evocation (Darkness)
Level: Brd 1, Clr 1, Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium or Touch
Area or Target: 20-ft. radius or object touched
Duration: 10 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
This spell can be caster either on a point in the air or on an object. In either case, a veil of shadows falls over the area of effect. All creatures in the area have concealment (20% miss chance). Creatures with low-light vision have limited sight in the shadows (anything within 5 ft. has no concealment), but those with darkvision can see normally, and those with blindsense can also operate normally.
Normal lights (torches, candles, lanterns, and so forth) are incapable of brightening the area, as are light spells of lower level. Higher level light spells are not affected by circle of shadows.
If this spell is cast on a small object that is then placed inside or under a lightproof covering, its effect is blocked until the covering is removed.
Circle of shadows counters or dispels any light spell of equal or lower spell level.
Arcane Material Component: A bit of bat fur and either a drop of pitch or a piece of coal.[/sblock]
Deep Slumber (and Sleep)
[sblock]Deep Slumber
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Brd 3, Sor/Wiz 3
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
This spell functions like sleep, except that it affects 10 HD of creatures, +1 HD per caster level (maximum 15 HD).
Sleep
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Brd 1, Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area: One or more living creatures within a 15-ft.-radius burst
Duration: 1 min./level
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes
A sleep spell causes a magical slumber to come upon 4 Hit Dice of creatures, +1 HD per caster level (maximum 10 HD). Creatures with the fewest HD are affected first.
Among creatures with equal HD, those who are closest to the spell’s point of origin are affected first. Hit Dice that are not sufficient to affect a creature are wasted.
Sleeping creatures are helpless. Slapping or wounding awakens an affected creature, but normal noise does not. Awakening a creature is a standard action (an application of the aid another action).
Sleep does not target unconscious creatures, constructs, or undead creatures.
Material Component: A pinch of fine sand, rose petals, or a live cricket.
Changes made: Scaled progression for number of HD affected; AoE increased to 15 ft. to account for more HD of creatures.[/sblock]
Disjunction
[sblock]Abjuration
Level: Magic 9, Sor/Wiz 9
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One spellcaster, creature, or object; or a 30-ft.-radius burst
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates (object)
Spell Resistance: No
Disjunction functions like dispel magic except as noted below.
Targeted Dispel: Disjunction automatically dispels any single spell or effect of non-divine origin and lower caster level. Against spells with a higher caster level, the caster must make a dispel check. Magic items must make a Will save or be rendered permanently nonmagical. Artifacts cannot be affected by a disjunction. Items inside an antimagic field cannot be targeted.
Area Dispel: There is no maximum caster level for the caster level check to dispel ongoing spells and effects. Unlike dispel magic, disjunction has a chance to dispel multiple spells active on a creature - it checks for every spell. Magic items must make Will saves or have its magical properties suppressed for 1d4 rounds. The caster has a 1% chance per caster level of destroying an antimagic field. If the field survives, no items within it are subject to the dispel effect.
Counterspell: Disjunction automatically succeeds when used as a counterspell, unless the other caster is also casting a disjunction, in which case caster level checks must be made as normal. Disjunction can be used to counterspell an epic spell, but the caster must make a caster level check.
Changes made: Numerous.[/sblock]
[sblock]Abjuration
Level: Clr 8, Sor/Wiz 6
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 10 ft.
Area: 10-ft.-radius emanation, centered on you
Duration: 10 minutes/level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: See below
An invisible barrier surrounds you and moves with you. The space within this barrier is impervious to most magical effects, including spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. Likewise, it prevents the functioning of most nonepic magic items or spells within its confines.
An antimagic field has can suppress any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it. The caster of the field must make a caster level check against the spell or effect when it is used within, brought into, or cast into the area; if the caster level check succeeds, the spell or effect is suppressed. Time spent within an antimagic field counts against the suppressed spell’s duration.
Summoned creatures of any type and incorporeal undead wink out if they enter an antimagic field. They reappear in the same spot once the field goes away. Time spent winked out counts normally against the duration of the conjuration that is maintaining the creature. If you cast antimagic field in an area occupied by a summoned creature that has spell resistance, you must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) against the creature’s spell resistance to make it wink out. (The effects of instantaneous conjurations are not affected by an antimagic field because the conjuration itself is no longer in effect, only its result.)
A normal creature can enter the area, as can normal missiles. Any magical weapons or armor brought into the field must make a Will save or have their magical abilities be suppressed while within the field, even if they exit and reenter. Magic weapons that do not function magically within the field are still weapons (and masterwork weapons at that). The spell has no effect on golems and other constructs that are imbued with magic during their creation process and are thereafter self-supporting (unless they have been summoned, in which case they are treated like any other summoned creatures). Elementals, corporeal undead, and outsiders are likewise unaffected unless summoned. These creatures’ spell-like or supernatural abilities, however, may be temporarily nullified by the field. Dispel magic does not remove the field, though disjunction might.
Two or more antimagic fields sharing any of the same space have no effect on each other. Certain spells, such as wall of force, prismatic sphere, and prismatic wall, remain unaffected by antimagic field (see the individual spell descriptions). Artifacts, epic spells, and deities are unaffected by mortal magic such as this. Should a creature be larger than the area enclosed by the barrier, any part of it that lies outside the barrier is unaffected by the field.
Arcane Material Component: A pinch of powdered iron or iron filings.[/sblock]
Darkness
[sblock]Evocation [Darkness]
Level: Brd 3, Clr 3, Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium or Touch
Area or Target: 20-ft. radius or object touched
Duration: 10 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
This spell can be cast either on a point in the air or on an object. In either case, darkness falls over the area of effect. All creatures in the area are considered blind (-2 to AC, no Dex bonus to AC, move is limited to half speed, and -4 to Search checks and most Strength- and Dex-based skills), but they also gain total concealment (50% miss chance). Low-light vision does not enable a creature to see through the darkness, but darkvision reduces the blackness to shadowy dimness (can see up to 5 feet, but creatures in that area have concealment; anything beyond 5 feet has total concealment). Spells like true seeing enable them to see normally, and creatures with blindsense suffer no penalty.
If the spell is cast on a point in the air, it is immobile. If it is cast on an object, it is tied to that object and can be moved.
Normal lights (torches, candles, lanterns, and so forth) are incapable of brightening the area, as are light spells of lower level. Higher level light spells are not affected by darkness.
If darkness is cast on a small object that is then placed inside or under a lightproof covering, the spell’s effect is blocked until the covering is removed.
Darkness counters or dispels any light spell of equal or lower spell level.
Arcane Material Component: A bit of bat fur and either a drop of pitch or a piece of coal.
Changes made: Level adjusted, and the spell is actual darkness, not "shadowy illumination". Darkvision grants limited sight in the darkness.
(Bumping this up to L3 also opens some room for a lesser spell that does create "shadowy illumination", like circle of shadows - see below.)
Circle of Shadows
Evocation (Darkness)
Level: Brd 1, Clr 1, Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium or Touch
Area or Target: 20-ft. radius or object touched
Duration: 10 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
This spell can be caster either on a point in the air or on an object. In either case, a veil of shadows falls over the area of effect. All creatures in the area have concealment (20% miss chance). Creatures with low-light vision have limited sight in the shadows (anything within 5 ft. has no concealment), but those with darkvision can see normally, and those with blindsense can also operate normally.
Normal lights (torches, candles, lanterns, and so forth) are incapable of brightening the area, as are light spells of lower level. Higher level light spells are not affected by circle of shadows.
If this spell is cast on a small object that is then placed inside or under a lightproof covering, its effect is blocked until the covering is removed.
Circle of shadows counters or dispels any light spell of equal or lower spell level.
Arcane Material Component: A bit of bat fur and either a drop of pitch or a piece of coal.[/sblock]
Deep Slumber (and Sleep)
[sblock]Deep Slumber
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Brd 3, Sor/Wiz 3
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
This spell functions like sleep, except that it affects 10 HD of creatures, +1 HD per caster level (maximum 15 HD).
Sleep
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Brd 1, Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area: One or more living creatures within a 15-ft.-radius burst
Duration: 1 min./level
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes
A sleep spell causes a magical slumber to come upon 4 Hit Dice of creatures, +1 HD per caster level (maximum 10 HD). Creatures with the fewest HD are affected first.
Among creatures with equal HD, those who are closest to the spell’s point of origin are affected first. Hit Dice that are not sufficient to affect a creature are wasted.
Sleeping creatures are helpless. Slapping or wounding awakens an affected creature, but normal noise does not. Awakening a creature is a standard action (an application of the aid another action).
Sleep does not target unconscious creatures, constructs, or undead creatures.
Material Component: A pinch of fine sand, rose petals, or a live cricket.
Changes made: Scaled progression for number of HD affected; AoE increased to 15 ft. to account for more HD of creatures.[/sblock]
Disjunction
[sblock]Abjuration
Level: Magic 9, Sor/Wiz 9
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One spellcaster, creature, or object; or a 30-ft.-radius burst
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates (object)
Spell Resistance: No
Disjunction functions like dispel magic except as noted below.
Targeted Dispel: Disjunction automatically dispels any single spell or effect of non-divine origin and lower caster level. Against spells with a higher caster level, the caster must make a dispel check. Magic items must make a Will save or be rendered permanently nonmagical. Artifacts cannot be affected by a disjunction. Items inside an antimagic field cannot be targeted.
Area Dispel: There is no maximum caster level for the caster level check to dispel ongoing spells and effects. Unlike dispel magic, disjunction has a chance to dispel multiple spells active on a creature - it checks for every spell. Magic items must make Will saves or have its magical properties suppressed for 1d4 rounds. The caster has a 1% chance per caster level of destroying an antimagic field. If the field survives, no items within it are subject to the dispel effect.
Counterspell: Disjunction automatically succeeds when used as a counterspell, unless the other caster is also casting a disjunction, in which case caster level checks must be made as normal. Disjunction can be used to counterspell an epic spell, but the caster must make a caster level check.
Changes made: Numerous.[/sblock]
