D&D (2024) Long rests getting better but GM needs still not being considered

[GMforPowergamers]

Exactly. This guy roleplays.

Thank you... when I really get into it though my players sometimes wish I just sent assassins and bounty hunters... I play a great grieving _____

 

[Olrox17]

Most of your resources being daily recharge (everything but 4E) and most of your resources being encounter recharge (4E) was a huge shift. One that allowed for the game to actually be balanced for a change. Also splitting non-combat from combat magic was a big help. So was calling out class roles and designing the role first then fitting the fiction of the class to that really helped. Etc.

True enough, and some of those changes are present, to a degree, in 5e as well (short rest recharging powers, rituals). Roles might be making a sneaky comeback in 5.5 (experts, priests, mages, warriors).
But I still think those changes didn't really change the way we played D&D at the table, they just made the game somewhat more enjoyable, overall.

 

[tetrasodium]

How do rests work in Pathfinder?

It seems I don't even remember how they worked in pre 4e D&D... But I don't think they were restoring everything in eight hours...

pretty muchidentical to 3.5. Long term care, wands of cure light wounds, handwaved "yea now's a good time" recovery.

spell slot recovery got some discussion but it was more nuanced than was expressed up thread in both PF & 3.x. Depending on the class it varied a bit. Most classes needed either a specific time of day or a good night's rest plus either some peaceful time in study or prayer with interruptions trivially nixing it if they came at the wrong time.

Then the king declares them outlaws for failing to save his son. Now the party has to deal with bounty hunters and assassins because of it.

While an actual Doom Clock gets old, there should normally be consequences for taking a rest. If there's not, then you designed the adventure to assume they will rest at that point (whether you intended it or not). The bad guys should not remain static, waiting in their default location until the party runs across them, but should be reacting. If the party attacks a dungeon, then leaves, they should shore up their defenses, possibly including traps, patrols, increased guards, etc. Remember: if the party does a full 8 hour adventuring day, that leaves 16 hours to respond, so if they do less than an hour a day, they have almost 24 hours to respond (and you can get a lot done in a day, if you put your mind to it).

Your premise depends entirely on the players caring about things beyond their own PCs, It's very easy for players to not care & have a great time. Take this example from a recent campaign of mine.

So the king declares them outlaws?... "cool MOAR story!"
So hunters come after the party looking for the bounty?... "cool MOAR story!"
So the players need to explain why they failed under the queens hysterical tears?... "cool MOAR story!"
etc

the system is designed so players can long rest in a gutter outside a haunted mansion during a hailstorm & so that they never require anything like regular equipment improvements that might be put behind difficulties... No matter what the GM puts under the knife of consequence is just "cool MOAR story!"

 

[Flamestrike]

I am not a fan of a 5mwd, but I would walk right then and there

And I'd be happy to see you leave.

You're violating the social contract we (as a group) agreed to at session zero.

You can take those shennanigans to another table, and the current group can get on with the game we agreed to play.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

And I'd be happy to see you leave.

You're violating the social contract we (as a group) agreed to at session zero.

You can take those shennanigans to another table, and the current group can get on with the game we agreed to play.

except you said the group... so in this case it would be YOU violating the social contract. YOU think it is us abuseing the 5mwd but since we all agreed not to and everyone but you agreed to an 8 hour rest we DIDN'T think it was shennangins... again your passive agressive "You can but suprise no benfit" instead of talking like an adult is crazy.

 

[AnotherGuy]

my answer would be "the prince dies now you have to explain WHY you failed... not under punishments, but under the queens hysterical tears.

This works.
They could find themselves stripped of titles, guild memberships and/or perks.
Perhaps lose the hand to a fair noble maiden.
Worse case scenario banished.

 

[Micah Sweet]

This works.
They could find themselves stripped of titles, guild memberships and/or perks.
Perhaps lose the hand to a fair noble maiden.
Worse case scenario banished.

That is a great answer...for the right players. A lot of folks IME only really care about the next adventure, and that sort of stuff wouldn't matter to them.

 

[FallenRX]

You skipped 4e which incidentally solved this issue along with like 80% of all longstanding problems in D&D.

Solved this issue? 4E is the reason this issue exists, no other dnd rest is like 5e's but 4e's.
It started this problem because it wanted to move away from resource attrition to just tactical combat game with powers, and it held over into 5e.
90% of 5e's problems are 4E hold overs that dont work with a actual normal dnd game. Because 5e is and always will be the 4E devs trying to make a normal dnd game.

 

[Branduil]

Part of the problem is that D&D wants to be "simulationist"(you do X, and Y always happens) without suffering the natural consequences of simulationism (players realize they are always more powerful with frequent rests, try to rest as much as rules allow). The easy fix is to just say players must complete X number of encounters before they can long rest, but that makes the same players complaining about frequent rests mad for "gamifying" rests (as if the current system is not gamified).

 

[Micah Sweet]

Part of the problem is that D&D wants to be "simulationist"(you do X, and Y always happens) without suffering the natural consequences of simulationism (players realize they are always more powerful with frequent rests, try to rest as much as rules allow). The easy fix is to just say players must complete X number of encounters before they can long rest, but that makes the same players complaining about frequent rests mad for "gamifying" rests (as if the current system is not gamified).

It's more obviously gamified.