D&D 5E Longswords

[hejtmane]

Similarly, I have never once seen any DM play a game of D&D where a combat didn't start with "roll your initiative" which has always been that number on the character sheet dictated pretty much entirely by the Dexterity score.


Sorry to burst the bubble of your idealized world-- but in the real world in which people actually play the game, encumbrance is virtually never a thing (it gets invoked about has often as people remember to mark off rations or track their water) while Initiative is an absolute constant of the game.

Then you have not played with me as the DM I did away with that system and went to what they call the popcorn method of initiative. Some times I decided if them or the monster starts first or we roll a d20 no modifiers yes i know some end skills rely on it that is easy to take care off. Been a great success at my table at keeping players more engaged

Here is a link about it

http://angrydm.com/2013/09/popcorn-...and-pathfinder-initiative-with-a-stupid-name/

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Tony Vargas]

You are WAY off here. WAY off.

Wow, I make one Apple joke, and boom. Leave it at the Genius Bar, already.

;P

In order to make Dexterity the superior choice and make anyone who focuses on Strength a damn laughing stock, you need not change a single rule at all.

Sure, DEX is das uberstat. It's obvious to any powergamer of rudimentary skill. I was just say'n that if you wanted to use that kind of mechanical leverage to shape player choices in your campaign, you'd have to make it more clear-cut than that.

Of course, you could just take armor of the equipment list, but then you know you'll get some method-player wanting special permission to have heavy armor because wearing his ancestor's armor is central to his character concept...

In order to make Strength an even viably competitive build, you would first need to slash the cost of all armors by to about 1/5th their current PHB cost.

Possibly the least significant factor, since there's no wealth/level guidelines to speak of.

In order to encourage people playing kngihts-in-shining armor in a medival world, you would have to make drastic alterations to the current system.

D&D's AC system favored heavy armor prior to 3.0, and it wasn't a drastic change in 3.0 that caused that shift.

However you might like it in your ideal world, I have played through dozens of D&D games. Never once have I ever came across a DM who ever counted up the encumbrance on a PC's sheet

I guess its more of an old-school thing. Also an obsessive young nerd thing. When I was a kid, I actually /liked/ accounting for every 1/10th lb 'gp' of enc my character was carrying, and exactly where each piece of equipment was, and what capacity was left to each container involved...

But, yeah, not so much anymore. The option is fine to have, but not important to the relative merits of STR vs DEX, even if encumbrance rules are used, they're rarely high-impact, and are easy enough to cope with even if you dumped STR.

 

[GreenTengu]

Then you have not played with me as the DM I did away with that system and went to what they call the popcorn method of initiative. Some times I decided if them or the monster starts first or we roll a d20 no modifiers yes i know some end skills rely on it that is easy to take care off. Been a great success at my table at keeping players more engaged

Here is a link about it

http://angrydm.com/2013/09/popcorn-...and-pathfinder-initiative-with-a-stupid-name/

That's great, but that's you and only you. You are but one of tens of thousands of people running a D&D game.
Quoting an initiative system that is not found within the books.... you may as well be arguing that Elves don't get a Dexterity boost in D&D because the personal houserules that you and only you play with make them a primary Intelligence race with Wood Elves getting Charisma and High Elves getting Wisdom.

As true as it may be for you, it isn't for anyone else.

Anyway, as for encumbrance rules....

Well, even a 8 Str character can carry 120 pounds. The studded armor is 13, the shield is 6, the rapier is 2, your bow is 2, 40 arrows is 2. So a total of 25 pounds for your basic equipment.

The 20 Str character can carry 300 pounds. The Platemail is 65, the shield is 6, the long sword is 3, and your best option for ranged is Javelins which will be 2 pounds EACH. So let's say 10 Javelins for 20 pounds. So your basic equipment is 96 pounds.

This means the Dex character can carry 95 pounds of other equipment and treasure and the 20 Strength character can carry 204 pounds of other equipment and treasure. So indeed, the strength character makes a good mule.

 

[CapnZapp]

The real cause of this phenomenon is how 5E has removed most of the reasons to base your fighter on strength. About the only reason remaining is that only strength supports two-handed builds, leaving the longsword with few or no users.

To my simple mind, the best way of fixing this is to target the core issue.

Revoke the decision to allow dex weapons to have dex damage.

That is, once rapiers and longbows use 1d8+Str bonus for damage (even while they continue to use Dex bonus for attacks), you should find that longswords no longer fall from popularity and use.

Since I keep getting readers (and XP, thanks! ) for this post, let me make sure everybody understand I don't want to deny your character dex-based damage.

I just want the baseline to be strength-based damage.

I am perfectly okay with specific builds to say things like "you can add your Dexterity bonus to damage rolls instead of Strength for finesse weapons". This might be appropriate for rogues, swashbucklers, or sharpshooters, what do I know.

It's just not appropriate for the basic fighter, since it is the core cause of outclassed longswords.

 

[Ancalagon]

That's great, but that's you and only you. You are but one of tens of thousands of people running a D&D game.
Quoting an initiative system that is not found within the books.... you may as well be arguing that Elves don't get a Dexterity boost in D&D because the personal houserules that you and only you play with make them a primary Intelligence race with Wood Elves getting Charisma and High Elves getting Wisdom.

As true as it may be for you, it isn't for anyone else.

Anyway, as for encumbrance rules....

Well, even a 8 Str character can carry 120 pounds. The studded armor is 13, the shield is 6, the rapier is 2, your bow is 2, 40 arrows is 2. So a total of 25 pounds for your basic equipment.

The 20 Str character can carry 300 pounds. The Platemail is 65, the shield is 6, the long sword is 3, and your best option for ranged is Javelins which will be 2 pounds EACH. So let's say 10 Javelins for 20 pounds. So your basic equipment is 96 pounds.

This means the Dex character can carry 95 pounds of other equipment and treasure and the 20 Strength character can carry 204 pounds of other equipment and treasure. So indeed, the strength character makes a good mule.

The base rule are ridiculously generous. I strongly urge you to use the more "advanced" rules. That 8 strength character? he has 25 pounds *without* any travel gear, rations, water, light source, anything at all. He's not even wearing any *clothes* for crying out loud.

Let's see: backpack, 5 pounds. bedroll 7 pounds. common clothes: 3 pounds. Lantern 2 pounds.... if you are a low strength character, it adds up *fast*.

And yes we use it at our table too. That naked barbarian? Despite wearing no armor (but insisting on 3 sets of weapons), he had to take a speed penalty because he couldn't bring himself to leave part of his kit (bedroll, 10 rations etc) behind (good roleplaying due to being an urchin, very protective of possessions).

 

[Prism]

In order to make Strength an even viably competitive build, you would first need to slash the cost of all armors by to about 1/5th their current PHB cost.

In order to encourage people playing kngihts-in-shining armor in a medival world, you would have to make drastic alterations to the current system.

We have found that strength based characters end up with a better AC and generally do more damage. A dex based ranged attacker is a nice addition but I'd rather have the knight in armour first.

 

[CapnZapp]

We have found that strength based characters end up with a better AC and generally do more damage.

You have a lot of minmaxing discoveries ahead of you

 

[Prism]

You have a lot of minmaxing discoveries ahead of you

Ah, but we don't minmax so that's not a problem

But I do stick to my statement. The biggest damage dealers I have seen are two handed weapon users and the characters wearing full plate have the best AC.

Sword and shield or two weapon fighting can take dex or str pretty equally.

Obviously dedicated ranged characters go for dex but I have found that although the excel in open areas, they can be a little problematic in close quarters. Also, its tricky to fit a dedicated ranged attacker in a standard size group of 4

 

[RCanine]

In order to make Strength an even viably competitive build, you would first need to slash the cost of all armors by to about 1/5th their current PHB cost.

In what universe is gold even a remotely limiting factor? Most adventures just shower you with gold.