Looking for info on GURPS. Unbalanced?

[mmu1]

Just curious, but other than exact method how does that make it any different than D20?

For one thing, the fact that there are no classes, and no limits (other than what the GM sets) on how advanced certain abilities can be at character creation.

That, along with the fact that ability prices are scaled much more steeply than in D&D, and that the game uses the non-linear 3d6 skill check mechanic, makes it much more profitable to min-max than D&D ever does.

In D&D, you can probably power-game more effectively, because of the huge amounts of prestige classes that interact in ways their designers never intended, but for pure min-maxing goodness, it's hard to beat GURPS...

Any decent DM ought to be able to easily deal with it, of course, but the question was whether GURPS rules have balance issues, and they definitely do. It's a lot easier to make two starting characters with wildly different levels of effectiveness than it is in D&D.

 

[avin]

For low point characters (75 - 150) GURPS is a very well balanced system.

Its best feature is that, as said before, you can create very flexible and real characters. There are rules for almost everything, if you want to try some campaign where the players really care about their characters GURPS is the solution.

I've played GURPS fantasy for years and I can say it's very nice, even if it's not so heroic as D&D.

 

[Broken Fang]

I played GURPS for ten years or so...between 1st ed and 3rd ed D&D. It is an excellent game system but is different than D&D. It is possible to min-max but also very possible for the GM to say no (ie. limit the # of points that can be spent in one stat or the total # of points spent in stats). It is a much easier game to make the character you want...no having to multi-class to here and there, just pick up the skill you want. There are also lots of easy house rules to implement to make the game slightly better.

One involves the absent minded prof that was mentioned above. Since in the basic rules alertness is based off IQ all smart guys can spot and listen. Rule change is for alertness (which can be broken down to the five senses) to be based of 10 with modifiers added (Keen Senses).

There are many other easy fixes. Anither thing I liked about GURPS was that you could play any level of character from the start. Want a Special Ops guy...spend 200 points. Want a fledgling adventurer spend 50. I have played both and have had serious fun with our Warhammer conversion to GURPS campaign where we all started as 50 point characters.

Also in GURPS advancement is not nearly as huge a deal as it is in D&D. Characters also depend more on their skill and advantage selection than their items. It lends itself much better to a low magic tpye campaign.

 

[Celtavian]

Re

GURPS is very difficult to run. It has alot of combat rules, so many that even after years you often find yourself forgetting to use them.

They have very few pubilshed adventures, but they do have some generic NPC books to help you design adventures.

The system is very flexible. The combat is very lethal and about as realilstic as you can get for a game system.

Don't expect your players to be throwing down with giants or killing a large group of orcs. Combat just isn't like in GURPS unless you use some of the cinematic rules.

 

[Psion]

GURPS, in many ways, doesn't really try to be balanced. It prices things based on rarity and supposed difficulty to learn, not based upon usefulness in the game.

Another balance issue in GURPS is role balance. The ease of buying low level skills compared to high level skills and the ease of pumping up stats compared to skills means that Jack-of-all-trades type characters are more viable than specialists.

 

[WizarDru]

Pretty much everything that you've seen above is spot on. GURPS combat is, for the most part, much deadlier than d20 combat. However, you have a choice as to your complexity level and implementation. GURPS specifically offers a Basic and Advanced Combat options...and the Basic options is more than adequate for most situations (I used it for a Supers game for 8 years). The Advanced system is much more miniatures focused (though it doesn't require them) and if you can handle combat in d20, you can handle the advanced rules. The biggest difference in GURPS is that successfully hitting is only half the battle...if the target is good at parrying, using their shield or just moving fast, you may still miss. If they have suitably 'turtled up', then you might not harm them, even if you hit.

As a skills & Advantage based system, GURPS offers a huge amount of flexibility and customizability to both players and DM. However, the system has some flaws that need to be accounted for. First, only two of the four stats are truly valuable for most character concepts. IQ and DX are the roots of most feats, and as such, more valuable than ST and HT. The system of 'defaults' assures that a character with high DX has a reasonable chance of succeeding at many skills, and some advantages, like Eidetic Memory, were just plain broken. The character creation system requires that GMs be involved heavily, as many of the advantages require judgement calls. Since characters take disadvantages to gain points, some things have to be monitored...for example, anosmia (no ability to taste/smell) or being colorblind are popular choices. Good DM's can make these REAL disadvantages, of course, but in GURPS, you need to be more dilligent at creation time.

There are other things that are more of a 'taste' issue. Some things, such as the default magic system, are either a boon or a bore, depending. Characters never truly become immortal gods, without the help of cinematic rules (of which they present a great deal). Many of the mechanics come across as arbitrary, and need examination to make sure they actually make sense (d20 is greater as far as internal consistency is concerned, although prior to the release of 3E, I wouldn't have said so).

GURPS, overall, is extremely flexible, and is nice in that it allows you to use one system for many different settings (hence the reason it was system of choice for GURPS Japan, Supers, Fantasy, Anime and a few other homebrews, such as my personal GURPS Falkenstein). It's also excellent in that 'wacky' character concepts are much easier to execute. I once had a character who was named Jack (as in 'of all trades') who was just lucky (via the Great Luck advantage) and had a high DX, with few points spent on skills. He was fun. The same system allowed me to create a 30's Irish-descended beat cop in a GURPS Cthulu game, a hard-bitten street-fighter named 'Viper' in a GURPS Bloodsport game, and a schmuck who could create elemental automaton doubles of himself in GURPS Supers. Like I said, flexibile.

 

[sword-dancer]

Kind of getting off on a tangent here, but I also don't like the reccommened power level for starting (100 point + 35 points of flaws) characters, which every GURPS GM I had insisted on... I can't even build myself (a large, fairly strong guy, above average manual dexterity, good health, a degree from a good university, a scientific education, a smattering of other skills, and no debilitating flaws (in GURPS, physical flaws are often crippling and most mental ones make you a nutcase, what most of use have are 1-point quirks) that could subtract from the point total), never mind a heroic character I'd want to play. It's quite a change in that way from D&D, which definitely emphasises above-average individuals.

40 Points disads, 5 Point Quirks.
I had no Problem to made a capable Thief who could defend himself, or an Navy Officer(British Navy in the Independenc war) with 100 Points in less than an hour with .
An Scholar/Ingenieur in a renaissance/Medieval World with acceptable Weapon skill(sword/shield) and in this case I throw CP away for special Equipment(Mostly Books, a donkey and Ingenieurs Tools) because I had them over.

100 Points are for starting Heroe Material not for fullblownm Heroes.
There you goes in the 200 -400-1000 Point categorie.

Like any purely point-buy, skill-based system, it's extremely susceptible to powergaming, min-maxing, and other abuse, especially given the huge number of supplements available and the large amounts of edges/flaws.

Sorry all Dis/advantages you need are in the Basic Book, the Setting Book and the Magic/Psionic Books, or in the Comdium I

.

The fact that a lot of stuff that'd be handled by Wisdom and Charisma in D&D all gets rolled into INT doesn't help the balance either. INT is used for everything - environmental awareness, keeping one's cool in battle... Under the basic rules, it's hard to make an absent-minded scientist, anyone highly intelligent has the situational awareness and senses of a fighter pilot. They do suggest alternatives in some supplements, but I don't think there is a codified system for it.

Absent Mindedness is II_RC a disadvantage.

 

[mmu1]

Since characters take disadvantages to gain points, some things have to be monitored...for example, anosmia (no ability to taste/smell) or being colorblind are popular choices. Good DM's can make these REAL disadvantages, of course, but in GURPS, you need to be more dilligent at creation time.

I think that if I ever ran a GURPS game, I'd just hand out more points at character creation and limit the characters to some quirks and maybe one major (10 points or more) flaw each, but with good character background justification...

In one group I've played with, the DM wasn't careful about weaknesses at all, and everyone just loaded up on mental ones - most of the party was psychotic...

 

[seasong]

Balance: As in D20, there are optimal and sub-optimal builds. In my experience, GURPS is less prone to smackdown calibre breaking points - most of the optimal builds are better than sub-optimal, but not by quite the same stretch. At the same time, in GURPS it's very easy to build a very sub-optimal character for a particular campaign, by either specializing too much or not enough (the generalist usually doesn't work very well).

 

[Scarab]

Funny. I always find that I get points over when building 100 point characters, and spend the remaining points on "hobby skills."