Looking for Rogue play tips

[Lindorie]

I'm DM'ing a 4E game for a group of 13-17 yr olds with little DnD experience. One player really wants to play a rogue, which I've never done before.

He's having problems figuring out how to successfully run a rogue in a game. He's tried to sneak into an enemy's camp a couple of times, but ends up in the thick of things with enemy tanks pounding on him. He's not ever had a chance to use his sneak attack, and is mostly ineffective during combat.

As I said, I've never played a rogue, and I haven't figured out how to help him. I can stage something, like a single, distracted guard not seeing the rogue sneaking up behind him. For general combat, however, I don't have a "rogue-mindset" to help.

If the PHB/DMG would help, we're in the unfortunate group included when Amazon ran out of stock. We also receive mail in 4-6 weeks and live 3000+ miles from the nearest store that would stock the books.

So, does anyone have some tips? Perhaps some example combats where the rogue is contributing?

Edit - If it makes a difference, he's using he KotS Halfling Rogue.

 

[Family]

I have no idea where your pouch went.

A Ninja that works well on a team. It's ALL about Combat Advantage.
-Sneak up ahead of the group and get first hit, then hoof it back.
-First hit can be from range...those daggers fly!
-This also puts you out front for checking for traps.
-Most of your powers can be ranged.
-You have a great hit vs. AC.
-Being on the boss is a good thing but stay flexible and do what is best for the party.
-Save the reroll for a critical hit, or when you are in trouble.
-Move!
-You can have a +5 to Opportunity Attacks so don't be afraid to move around.
-FLANK!
-FLANK!
-FLANK!

For a primer on flanking (though not by a rogue) check this from 2:40 to 3:00

And remember you're not a rogue you're a cartographer (or whatever) when in town.

 

[Cadfan]

Alright, I don't have the KotS rogue stats memorized, but here are some random rogue tips. The basic rule is this- you are very accurate, but your damage sucks. Unless you get sneak attack, that is, in which case your damage is awesome. So your goal is clear- obtain sneak attack damage as often as possible.

1. Get a ranged weapon. Use it in the first round of combat against an enemy who hasn't yet acted, ie, someone you ambushed or someone who rolled a lower initiative than you. This will get you sneak attack damage.

2. Some of your allies may have attacks which inflict penalties on enemies, and cause them to grant combat advantage. Get a list of the effects which cause an enemy to grant combat advantage (its on page 280 of the PHB). Whenever someone inflicts one of those statuses on an enemy, move adjacent to that enemy and make an attack, or use a ranged attack against that enemy.

3. You have attacks which reposition enemies. Move them into the middle of your melee allies, so that your enemy is flanked. Then you can attack with combat advantage.

4. I believe you have Deft Strike. When you are adjacent to an enemy whom you do not flank, use a move action to shift out of reach. Then use Deft Strike to move two squares into position to flank someone. Even if its the same enemy, that's ok.

5. Keep an eye on the terrain. Try to use it to shield you from the worst of your foes as you move about the battlefield. Allies in heavier armor count as terrain.

6. I wasn't kidding about having a ranged weapon around. If you can throw a dagger from a place of safety and get sneak attack (because the target is dazed or whatever), you should do so instead of moving yourself into the open.

7. Insist that the party use tactics. Ambush your foes as much as possible, rather than allow yourself to be ambushed by them.

 

[Surgoshan]

The rogue shouldn't necessarily be in the lead. If he's not going first, he should be hidden so he can jump out and attack while the enemies are going after the folks they can see. If he is going first, then he has combat advantage and can sneak attack without hiding. After that, he should definitely be doing everything he can to get combat advantage; that's where the rogue shines.

 

[Spatula]

The rogue depends on combat advantage in order to deal damage. Rogues can also scout and whatnot, but they shouldn't be trying to take out targets one-on-one. The two basic ways to get combat advantage are (a) to be hidden (stealth), but you stop being hidden after attacking; and (b) flank with someone else in melee combat. You can also use Bluff 1/encounter to get combat advantage (see the skill description), and some rogue powers can give you combat advantage for a round or two.

 

[Family]

-Also as I just found out your basic non-ranged attack is used for Opportunity Attacks, and that is keyed off of Str, so if your using a Dex build best keep that in mind.
-And you only get 1 Sneak attack in per round, so those action points arn't as tasty as with other classes.

 

[Lindorie]

Great answers, thanks! From somewhere back in my mind, probably 2E or 3E days, I had the thought that "sneak attack" == "on surprise". I had completely missed that 4E allowed it during combat advantage.

I brought this up to the player, who said he was aware of the sneak attack on combat advantaged, but said that he couldn't get any of the other players to help set it up.

He did tell me that he didn't know he sneak attack with a ranged weapon. He also agreed that he needs to move around a lot more, which kept getting him caught amongst the enemy once they started their turns.

Thanks again.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Great answers, thanks! From somewhere back in my mind, probably 2E or 3E days, I had the thought that "sneak attack" == "on surprise". I had completely missed that 4E allowed it during combat advantage.

Sneak Attack was already usable during flanking in 3E, regardless of surprise.

I brought this up to the player, who said he was aware of the sneak attack on combat advantaged, but said that he couldn't get any of the other players to help set it up.

Cooperation is important. But they'll learn that.

Might help to remind them that shifting takes a move action, doesn't provoke, and they should really not just stand in one place if they have the move action to spare _and_ can reach a better tactical position.

 

[Rechan]

Shuriken. While using daggers does give you an extra +1, using shuriken gives a single higher damage die (1d6 vs 1d4 for rogues), and an extra square of range. Also, it's cool.

Don't be afraid to use Stealth as a move action to hide during combat. This way, on your next round, you get combat advantage against a foe.

 

[ozziewolf]

Artful Dodger: If he's dex based he gets his charisma modifier as ac against attack of opportunities.

With a 16 charisma that's an additional 3ac and if he's a halfling that's an extra 2. For a total of +5 AC against OA's. This will allow him to move with out shifting with relative impunity. It's best to do it near the target the fighter has marked as if the marked target hits you with the OA then the fighter gets to immediatly nail the monster that attacked you. If the monster hits really hard you can pick and choose when to provoke OA's so do it wisely. One easy tactic is to walk back two squares provoking an OA against the fighters marked target and then deft striking back into melee range.
With deft attack you can actually move 8 squares in one round. Always go after a monster that is next to an ally. If that's not possible try to go for high ground.
With attacks such as positioning strike it's possible to push monsters off of ledges or into pits. Keep this in mind if it comes up.
First round of combat sneak attack with a ranged weapon what hasn't moved and try to get cover at the same time. Then in the second round the fighter should be engaged and you can move over towards him.
For me personally as a Rogue I find I rarely get hit more than once per encounter so as a Halfling I use reroll when ever I get hit rather than saving it for a crit. If you find you get hit more perhaps save it for when a non minion hits you.. if you're getting hit a lot you probably should adjust your tactics.


Basically the two keys are if you're not in range of a target you should be able to get in range of a target with 6 movement and 2 movement from deft attack. Don't worry about the OA's as they probably won't hit you. Especially if you take defensive mobility that will give you an extra 2 ac against OA's.
If you can't get into position at all go for high ground.

As a rule of thumb I recommend staying with the group and not going out far ahead of them scouting. In my experience you only need to roll badly once to get mauled by the monsters before your party can reach you. Be sure to look for traps as you move with your party though.