D&D 5E Looking for some feedback on a homebrew class

[Evil_DM]

Hi all,

I've been flexing my creative muscles now that I am diving into 5E and have tried to create a completely new class, the Bladesinger. What I have found in the SCAG was not really what I had expected from a bladesinger, so I've tried to come up with something more fitting.

However, I am not really good at numbercrunching or min/maxing, so I could really use some help with a couple of eyes willing to look to the class with regards to power level. Is it underpowered, or overpowered. Would it be cool to play, is also important of course. Any kind of feedback (the harsh kind too) is appreciated.

What would be the best way to do this, that you send me a PM with your mail adres, so I can send you a PDF?

Or another suggestion, is very welcome of course too...

Regards

EDIT
As recommended, added the pdf here

 

[Quickleaf]

[MENTION=86136]Evil_DM[/MENTION] Welcome to ENWorld!

You'll understand that with spam being what it is, and you being a new user, probably no one is going to take you up on your offer to share their email address.

Instead, what is commonly done, you can either (1) upload your PDF to GoogleDrive and share the link or (2) directly upload your PDF to your post (hit Edit on your original post and then Manage Attachments below).

Btw I think a bladesinger/swordmage/gish type class is a worthwhile endeavor, btw. I've seen people get by with warlock or eldritch knight or even re-skin a paladin, but I think there's enough demand out there for people to be interested in such a class.

 

[Morrus]

Yeah you can upload your PDF right here.


Sent from my iPhone using EN World

 

[Wiseblood]

Quickleaf beat me to it.

 

[Evil_DM]

@Evil_DM Welcome to ENWorld!

You'll understand that with spam being what it is, and you being a new user, probably no one is going to take you up on your offer to share their email address.

Thanks for the welcome! I'm not that new, but haven't been really active so far, I admit!

And alright, I'll post it above then! And looking forward to all kinds of (gameplay related/balancing/flavor) feedback, either below here or as a PM.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

From first glance:

I'd suggest you take a look at the UA Revised Ranger Beastmaster article to make the subclass with the hound less unwieldy.

The ability to make an attack alongside casting a cantrip is relatively powerful. Certainly it shouldn't be available with a single level dip. I'd suggest removing the Extra attack at 11th level, and granting this instead.

Songblade: I didn't much care for the "Elven cheeseblade" range of super-weapons in 3rd ed, and I would caution against making them part of the game here. You would have to explain why these weapons aren't in general usage, it pushes characters towards having only a single weapon choice, and it penalises characters who end up having to replace their weapon.
I'd suggest making the style usable with a wider range of weapons.

Bladesong styles:
These are generally quite powerful. Certainly considering that they are going on a full-caster class that also has access to multiple extra attacks and bonus AC.

Ability score improvements: Does the class get an extra one of these at 6th level etc? Its in the text, but not the table.

Enemy of the Aelfin (and Slayer): You might want to tighten up the wording. I'm guessing that its not meant to allow you to have advantage against every opponent you attack, as long as you don't attack a new opponent while the current is still alive. You might also consider what action it takes to apply.

 

[Quickleaf]

Quickleaf beat me to it.

On good days, my handle is apropos. On bad days, it's ironic.

 

[Quickleaf]

[MENTION=86136]Evil_DM[/MENTION] Nice clean layout. However, I'll tell you straight up: You'd be making Colin McComb, who wrote The Complete Book of Elves, proud with the degree of over-powered brokenness of this class in its current form.

At first blush, here's what I'm noticing:

• Full caster with Ritual Casting, with Extra Attack equivalent to an 11th level fighter, AND *seems* to be able to cast cure wounds (at least judging by your explicit mentioning of cure wounds in absence of an actual Bladesinger Spell List). Seems overpowered to me.
• Bladesong Styles are superior to Fighting Styles (compare Dust in the Wind – add 1/2 your prof. bonus to AC – to the fighter's Defensive Fighting Style – +1 AC – as an example of what I mean). Overpowered again.
• Insightful Movement, and have a scaling bonus to AC as icing on the top. Totally overpowered. Already my reasons for playing a fighter or a wizard over a bladesinger are practically nil.
• And on and on. I got the gist of how overpowered this is already, so that kind of killed my enthusiasm to read anymore.

Any class or subclass homebrewing needs work and playtesting. However this is so egregiously overpowered. It would take a lot of revision to get this down to something more reasonable, but I'm sure its possible.

 

[Evil_DM]

From first glance:

I'd suggest you take a look at the UA Revised Ranger Beastmaster article to make the subclass with the hound less unwieldy.

Thanks, will do!

The ability to make an attack alongside casting a cantrip is relatively powerful. Certainly it shouldn't be available with a single level dip. I'd suggest removing the Extra attack at 11th level, and granting this instead.

Stupid of me I haven't thought of that. Of course. Perhaps limiting it to a number of times per day, related to level? Or would that become too complex/too much administration?

Songblade: I didn't much care for the "Elven cheeseblade" range of super-weapons in 3rd ed, and I would caution against making them part of the game here. You would have to explain why these weapons aren't in general usage, it pushes characters towards having only a single weapon choice, and it penalises characters who end up having to replace their weapon.
I'd suggest making the style usable with a wider range of weapons.

Excellent suggestiont, hadn't thought of that either. Would want it to be flavourful, not hindering. I'll create a version of the Songblade that's mainly a flavoured longsword/bastardsword, and remove the requirement to need the Songblade for the bladesong.

Bladesong styles:
These are generally quite powerful. Certainly considering that they are going on a full-caster class that also has access to multiple extra attacks and bonus AC.

Aye, [MENTION=20323]Quickleaf[/MENTION] mentioned the same below. I'll have to rework it, I think. I was hoping to reach something that grows over the levels, but gives you variety from the beginning.

Ability score improvements: Does the class get an extra one of these at 6th level etc? Its in the text, but not the table.

Oversight, will add it in the text.

Enemy of the Aelfin (and Slayer): You might want to tighten up the wording. I'm guessing that its not meant to allow you to have advantage against every opponent you attack, as long as you don't attack a new opponent while the current is still alive. You might also consider what action it takes to apply.

Will do.
[MENTION=6802951]Cap'n Kobold[/MENTION], Thanks for taking the time to read it through, will be back with a better version

 

[Evil_DM]

Hi @Quickleaf, thanks for taking the time to read it through and comment on it.

@Evil_DM Nice clean layout. However, I'll tell you straight up: You'd be making Colin McComb, who wrote The Complete Book of Elves, proud with the degree of over-powered brokenness of this class in its current form.

Aww, that's so sweet! <3

All jokes aside, thanks for this feedback. I had hoped to create a nice flavorful class, not an IMBA one. I'll try and explain some of my reasoning below, and respond to your input.

At first blush, here's what I'm noticing:

• Full caster with Ritual Casting, with Extra Attack equivalent to an 11th level fighter, AND *seems* to be able to cast cure wounds (at least judging by your explicit mentioning of cure wounds in absence of an actual Bladesinger Spell List). Seems overpowered to me.

• 
  Ah, the cure wounds is really a mistake. That should not have been in there, and will most certainly be gone. Also, Ritual Casting, in hindsight, is perhaps not too fitting for a bladesinger. I mean, he spends time dancing, not doing rituals.
  
  I took the bard as basis for the bladesinger (including the 2'nd attack at level 11) and the Ritual Casting/Cure Wounds is a copy/paste mistake...
  
  

  [*]Bladesong Styles are superior to Fighting Styles (compare Dust in the Wind – add 1/2 your prof. bonus to AC – to the fighter's Defensive Fighting Style – +1 AC – as an example of what I mean). Overpowered again.

  Truth be told, this is something I have really been struggling with. I tried to compare it with the Bladesinger arcane tradition from SCAG where you get your full INT to AC from level 1, ánd you can wear light armor. So I had thought this was fairly balanced, when paired with Insightful Movement. I specifically wanted to prevent taking 1 level in Bladesinger and immediately having your full INT to AC as a bonus. Though I made the mistake of granting cantrip-and-attack at level 1 instead, which is of course my bad.
  
  

  [*]Insightful Movement, and have a scaling bonus to AC as icing on the top. Totally overpowered. Already my reasons for playing a fighter or a wizard over a bladesinger are practically nil.

  I had actually tried to make this more balanced that the SCAG Bladesinger I mentioned above, where you get the bonus to AC from level 1, fully. This one scales, instead of always offering it fully. When combined with the Dust In The Wind style, it would give you something akin to what the SCAG bladesinger has. At least, that was my reasoning...
  
  

  [*]And on and on. I got the gist of how overpowered this is already, so that kind of killed my enthusiasm to read anymore.

  Oh, it was so nót my intention to make it overpowered. I have actually spent some time trying to make this balanced. For example:
  - reduced the speed to 20, where the SCAG Bladesong improves the speed to 40. I found it much more fitting that by dancing, twirling and dodging you lose forward momentum.
  - not have the full INT to AC available from level 1, but have it scale, to prevent 'level 1 dip' into the class
  - not being able to wear any armor
  - not being able to dual-wield (which the SCAG bladesinger actually could)
  
  But apparently I've failed in making it balanced
  
  

  Any class or subclass homebrewing needs work and playtesting. However this is so egregiously overpowered. It would take a lot of revision to get this down to something more reasonable, but I'm sure its possible.

  I will be revisioning it, and if you're up for it, please do read V2 when it's done.
  For now, removal of the lvl1 cast-and-cantrip will be out, Ritual Casting will be out, and I'll go through the manouvers and Insightful Movement again. Any tips you have for improvements, let me know.
  
  Oh, and I also forgot to add a time-limit/number of times per day. Will think about that too. Either keep it a bit powerful but limit uses, or tone it down and make it unlimited use...
  
  Let me know what other suggestions you have (other spell progression perhaps?). I'll also try and add a spell-list text iteration