Lord of the Rings - The Two Towers ENworld reviews & discussion (SPOILERS)

[Renaissance Man]

I too was vaguely dissatisfied with the second installment, for many of the same reasons that have been recounted by others. (Faramir especially.) To that list, I would add the omission of Minas Morgul - I think PJ missed an opportunity to give the audience an epic case of heebie jeebies. Not to mention the spectacle of Mordor's army issuing from the city gates!

Alas, camparisons to the books - for those who have read them - are inevitable. But I am trying to enjoy the film for what it is, not what it is not. And I think it will continue to grow on me with repeated viewings. (I plan to see it for the second time tonight.)

 

[Mr Fidgit]

Re: Another review ...

Faramir came of faintly sleazy to me (which probably also has something to do with a vague resemblance to the actor who played the Sherriff of Nottingham in Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves).

Alan Rickman, who also plays Prof Snape in the Harry Potter films (among many other roles). David Wenham (Faramir) looked awfully familiar to me too - i know he's been in Dark City (and Moulin Rouge - which i haven't seen)

My wife kept asking: "Why don't the Ents get swept away by the water, too?"

i think because they re-rooted (but don't quote me on that )

some other comments:

for those of you who don't like commercials before the previews - we have the US Army to thank for that (they were the first to take their TV commercial and put them into theaters)

we saw previews for T3, the Core, and teasers for Dumb and Dumberer and some others that left no impression on me (we didn't get Bad Boys 2 - who's in it?)

i have read the Trilogy, but it's been so long i don't remember all of the details from the books (thankfully)

i don't mind the Gimli 'toss me - but don't tell the elf', but does the character have to be the butt of every joke? running across the plain, trapped under a Worg, standing at the wall - enough already!

Ents vs Isengard; my favorite part of the film

--the thing that bugged me most was the editing, or rather, the cuts between scenes. too much, too quickly (at points) IMO

(to go way back) i didn't hate the "freaked-out, green, 'you-wouldn't-like-me-when-i'm-angry' Gladriel from TFotR. it kind of reminded me of a part of Snow White (wicked witch gettin' nasty)

over, i liked FotR better, but this still gets two thumbs up

 

[FraserRonald]

Before I begin my rant (and it’s a long one) let me warn everyone that there are lots of spoilers. Read this only after seeing the movie. Also, this is all just my opinion. While a fan of the novels, I haven’t read them in a bit. I’m not a purist. However, I couldn’t just turn off my critical faculties while watching the movie, and I don’t think I should have to.

If you are still interested in reading my thoughts, read on.

While I would absolutely recommend seeing the movies, and there are some really great moments, Peter Jackson has strayed quite far from the source materiel and, unlike “Fellowship of the Ring”, has done so without any apparent logical purpose.

However, if you have never read the book, while there are problems with plot (extraneous elements that seem to serve no purpose and weak or stereotypical characterization are the two biggest cinematic problems having nothing to do with adaption) they are minor and should not impede your enjoyment. I would love this movie much more if I had never read the book. However, having read the book, and as this is an adaption, I cannot divorce it from its source material.

There are many minor quibbles that can be ignored, such as the attack of the Warg-Riders in Rohan, Theoden actually being possessed by Saruman rather than just being a victim of poor counsel and ruinous neglect, and Smeagol ridding himself of Gollum until the betrayal by Frodo and capture by Faramir’s rangers. These are all examples of changes made that, in some cases, make for better cinema and action and in other cases are just easier for the viewing audience who haven’t read the book to understand.

However, the massive changes made to some of the characters seem like missteps. Two glaring examples are Faramir and Theoden. Faramir, in the book, is an example that the men of Gondor are not all Boromir, thirsting for power, but rather some still have the blood of Numenor flowing their veins. Also, the genuine nobility of Faramir is what draws Eowyn to him, why they marry and flourish. Now, Mr. Jackson might be getting rid of that romance all together, which would be odd since he gives so much time to the romance of Aragorn and Arwen. However, who knows? The Faramir of the movie is simply Boromir 2 (He’s back, he’s not Sean Bean but he still wants the ring, it’s “Faramir: Boromir 2, the Revenge”!). And what, pray tell, moves him to change his mind? Is it that sappy, maudlin speech by Sam? (Someone mentioned to me that it proves Sean Astin is a great actor because that particular viewer didn’t have an overwhelming urge to throttle him after such rank cheerleading) I mean, the fact that the Nazgul want it should make him more adamant about not sending Frodo into Mordor rather than making him print up Frodo’s ticket. This Faramir only reinforces the fact that there’s a good reason Aragorn doesn’t want to be King of Gondor, ‘cause everyone in Gondor is such a bastard.

And then there’s Theoden. In the book, once the clouds are lifted, once the work of Grima’s whisperings has been reversed by Gandalf (and not through exorcism, but we won’t go there), Theoden becomes a decisive, strong king, understanding the threat to Rohan and acting to counter it. In this movie he’s in denial, apparently still senile, and while physically strong, is not decisive until the very end, egged on by Aragorn.

I think I see what Peter Jackson is doing. How many of you have not completely erased “Star Trek: Generations” from your mind? Remember the young captain of the new Enterprise, the guy played by Ferris Bueller’s buddy? How did such an indecisive idiot get to be captain of the flagship? The reason was so that Kirk could get to show how decisive and heroic he was. However, it is easy to be a hero among weaklings. Theoden is not allowed to be a powerful king and Faramir is not allowed to be noble so that Aragorn can stand all the higher. Heck, even Legolas (who was quite willing to chase down and possibly die in the attempt to wrestle Merry and Pippin away from countless Uruk-Hai) loses hope and worries about death. Only Aragorn stays strong. Problem is, how big of a hero are you if you are the only one who is heroic? Not much.

I laughed at the portrayal of Gimili, and I don’t mind them turning him into comic relief because he’s still such a bad-a$$ with an axe, but I much prefer the serious and dour Gimili of the books, because when he is touched by joy and wonder (by Galadriel and in the Glittering Caves) the glimpse of his interior we see is more astounding due to its rarity. However, that’s a minor quibble at best.

So, yes, a feast for the eyes. Helm’s Deep and Gollum are worth the price to see the movie. The battle scenes are great. The special effects are excellent. Definitely worth the price of admission. I’m very saddened, though, that Peter Jackson has lost what he had in “Fellowship of the Ring”, which was the sense to know what to change and what not to. I cannot find any compelling reason for the changes he made, other than arbitrariness.

In any case, thanks for letting me vent. This is all definitely the beginnings of a review that will go up later at http://www.atfantasy.com , though probably not until after Christmas.

Take care all!

 

[Assenpfeffer]

Before I begin my rant (and it’s a long one) let me warn everyone that there are lots of spoilers. Read this only after seeing the movie. Also, this is all just my opinion. While a fan of the novels, I haven’t read them in a bit. I’m not a purist. However, I couldn’t just turn off my critical faculties while watching the movie, and I don’t think I should have to.

I hope you realize that while you may not consider yoursewlf a purist, you're reviewing the movie as one, in that the only criticisms you seem to have lie in where the film deviated from the books.

Not that I entirely disagree with any of your individual points, mind.

My favorite stuff from the movie:

1) Gandalf's fight with the balrog. The descent itself is cool enough, but where the shot open up into that gigantic cavern with the underground sea? Wow. Then, in the flashback, we see them battling atop Durin's Tower, at the peak of Caradhras, and the Balrog being thrown down the mountain. Just awesome.

2) The Easterlings. It is just me or were they really cool-looking?

3) The Haradrim. Same thing, but with Oliphants!

4) The Dead Marshes and the Corpse-Candles. Very creepy.

5) Frodo, Sam and Gollum hiding from the Nazgul. The Fell Beast is genuinely scary.

6) Helm's Deep in general. Best siege ever on film. Knowing this, I'm shaking at the mere prospect of seeing the Battle of the Pelennor Fields.

 

[FraserRonald]

I hope you realize that while you may not consider yoursewlf a purist, you're reviewing the movie as one, in that the only criticisms you seem to have lie in where the film deviated from the books.

Except that I noted there were problems outside of the adaption problems, such as extraneous elements that added nothing to the plot and some very stereotypical characterizations. I then went on to say “However, having read the book, and as this is an adaption, I cannot divorce it from its source material.”

As for internal problems with the movie, without reference to the books, there are the extraneous elements. How many times does Aragorn need to think/dream/pine for Arwen before the audience, even those who have not seen the first movie, figure out they are in love? And the trip to Osgiliath was ridiculous simply from an internal logic sense, in that it only allows us to see more action (though you’d think after two rocks in the river ver close to the shore, somebody would figure the catapults or trebuchets or whatever needed a little more range) and have Faramir make an inexplicable change of heart. Some people have put up possible explanations, but, in all honesty, these same ends could be achieved without the trip. They are so close to Gondor, and then Faramir changes his mind?

These have nothing to do with the books, these are internal weaknesses in an already bloated film.

As for characterization, Saruman was all but twirling his waxed moustache, and in the hands of anybody but Christopher Lee could have come off quite campy. Bernard Law is a great actor, and with better lines, he might have at least made Theoden, as envisioned in the movie, sympathetic rather than petulant. If you can make Boromir a sympathetic character, and you want Theoden to be a bitter old man in denial, I think you can do a little better than this. As for Faramir, one minute he’s a standard bully, and the next he’s risking his life.

And please, someone tell me how one arrow drove off the Nazgul. I mean, the Ring is there. If it can’t see it, the Nazgul sure as heck can feel it. He was right there in front of Frodo. Then one arrow and bye-bye! How is he going to explain that one to the boss?

“Yes, master, the Ring was in my grasp, but they had arrows. Arrows! My fell beast even got pricked by one!”

Not that I entirely disagree with any of your individual points, mind.

My favorite stuff from the movie:

1) Gandalf's fight with the balrog. The descent itself is cool enough, but where the shot open up into that gigantic cavern with the underground sea? Wow. Then, in the flashback, we see them battling atop Durin's Tower, at the peak of Caradhras, and the Balrog being thrown down the mountain. Just awesome.

2) The Easterlings. It is just me or were they really cool-looking?

3) The Haradrim. Same thing, but with Oliphants!

4) The Dead Marshes and the Corpse-Candles. Very creepy.

5) Frodo, Sam and Gollum hiding from the Nazgul. The Fell Beast is genuinely scary.

6) Helm's Deep in general. Best siege ever on film. Knowing this, I'm shaking at the mere prospect of seeing the Battle of the Pelennor Fields.

Yes, that stuff is all very cool. And I certainly am not saying this is a bad movie. I am saying that it is inferior to FotR.

And, yes, I am so looking forward to the Battle of the Pelennor Fields.

Just my 2 cents (maybe a little more)

 

[Assenpfeffer]

Yes, that stuff is all very cool. And I certainly am not saying this is a bad movie. I am saying that it is inferior to FotR.

And I agree with you. Like I said, though, I expected this to be the weakest of the 3 movies.

 

[FraserRonald]

And I agree with you. Like I said, though, I expected this to be the weakest of the 3 movies.

While it was a hope beyond hope, I had kind of dreamed of an "Empire Strikes Back" situation. Of course, I figured FotR would be a tough act to follow.

Ah well, flawed but fun movie. Can't wait for RotK.

 

[Kestrel]

“Yes, master, the Ring was in my grasp, but they had arrows. Arrows! My fell beast even got pricked by one!”

That's ok. In the next one, the Witchking's spirit gets to come back to Sauron and say, "But master, they had a woman and hobbits with swords!"

All the while, the other Nazgul are whispering, "Hehe...he got killed by a chick!"

 

[billd91]

“Yes, master, the Ring was in my grasp, but they had arrows. Arrows! My fell beast even got pricked by one!”

Hey, don't underestimate those arrows. I think that Legolas might have dropped one of those fell beasts with an arrow as they were travelling down the Anduin.
Besides you don't have to drive off the nazgul with arrows, you just have to drive off its mount.

 

[Destil]

On a whole, very cool. Quite good.

My own nit picks are many of the same ones. While I don't mind Gilmi being the but of so many jokes. One in particular bothered me: The armor bit, since he's supposedly the only member of the fellowship openly wearing armor. Also, there's an OK line in the book, when he takes a shield with a horse on it: I'd rather bear a horse than have one bear me.

I think I would have liked Merry and Pippin a lot more if some of their cleverness / hobitness from this part of the book was left in, during the orc march. The cutting of the their ropes long before the fight and sitting down to eat some lembas just after escaping (something Aragorn mentions clearly shows that he's right that it's a hobbit he's teacking =D ) really has always been a large part defining them, and their interaction with the ents.

I think having Arwen (apperantly) already made up her mind to go to the undying lands is somwhat weak, and I think it's made a bit worse by her father's coaxing. In the book she has her mind set to stay with Aragorn until the bitter end and die as a mortal years before hand. Likewise Elrond, in the book, is somber about the war, since any way it ends it will mean sorrow for him, but still quite willing to go through with it. I really just fear this will come down making Arwen sound kinda like "Oh, you're the king now? Well, guess I could stay for that..." later. Though since Aragorn's request of marrying her appearantly isn't answered until he finds the sappling of the white tree, what's Elrond supposted to do if she's already crossed the sea? "Right, well.... I'll have the valar put her on the first ship back, then."

I wonder if Gondor has lost a lot of it's magesty within the films. From what we've seen, it's just a land of men. Nothing too special about it. It just dosn't seam reveared enugh, in the eyes of the rest of the world, particularly Theoidan's (If memory serves he lived there until he became king, and his wife was from Gondor. Given that the two kingdoms should have much faith in each other, it's a little disopointing to see him appear so resentful).

I'm a bit suprised at the elves showing up, since I had expected Arwen to take the place of her brothers, and bring Narsil with her...

Clearly they still try and mantain a lot of Tolkien's own words whenever possible (Gilmi's speach about female dwarves is right out of an appendex), which is nice. Sam and Frodo's story exposition has always been a favroite part, so it's a shame to see it re-worked as much as it was.

Also, the shift in the ring affecting Frodo so visibly and overtly, even before he gets into Mordor, is interesting. The book had a far slower build up that never really came to any sort of climax like was seen here until the very end.

And of course I'm a bit disopointed that the ents didn't do any tree-root effects on the rocks of Isenguard, and at the lack of their rage once the fight really begain, where it was like a hurricane of hurlled rock within the walls once Skinbark was burnt.

And the're leaving a lot for The return of the king... Shelob, Cirth Ungol, The visit with Saruman...