Lord of the Rings - The Two Towers ENworld reviews & discussion (SPOILERS)

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I just returned from my second viewing. I found that the second time through, I was less busy looking for plot nitpicks, and relaxed and enjoyed the film even more.

Really cool, the second time through. I got to pick a lot more detail out of the fight scenes (like PJ's cameo), and wonder about some of the details -- like just what IS that amulet Gandalf is wearing?

Faramir still bugs me a little, but I'm over the rest of it.

Go see it again! You know you wanna!

 

[Vocenoctum]

Faramir: I didn't see him as Boromir II, simply because I think Boromir would have TAKEN the ring given identical circumstances. Faramir is a man in a war, trying to decide what is best for his nation. When he thinks taking the ring to Gondor is the right thing, he moves to do that. When he realizes it's not, he stands up for what he believes.
I don't see Faramir as a bastard at all.

Theoden: I don't care about him, he merely existed to set the stage for the real heroes Anyone that would hire a man named Wormtongue as an advisor deserves what he gets!

Gollum: Early on, I got the comparison between him and Jar Jar, which I've seen in many things. But, as he developed, he went out of that. In the end, where Gollum was concerned, I actually acheived suspension of disbelief enough to think that IS what an ancient cave dwelling insane hobbit would BE. Heck, he seems more real to me than Merry and Pippin

 

[FraserRonald]

Hey, don't underestimate those arrows. I think that Legolas might have dropped one of those fell beasts with an arrow as they were travelling down the Anduin.
Besides you don't have to drive off the nazgul with arrows, you just have to drive off its mount.

Yeah, but the Ring's right there! Heck, Frodo's offering it to him. I mean, jump off the Fell Beast and grab it, or at least try. I mean, jeez, the nazgul gets back to Barad-dur and there's going to be a lot worse to face than a bunch of Gondorian infantry.

As for Legolas, in the movie, he hadn't even a fell beast. According to the books, yeah, the fell beasts were as vulnerable as the horses had been. The thing is, internal movie logic (because Peter's ignored the books in other areas) should make people say "What the frig?" when something like that happens.

Or not. I just thought it was pretty funny after they make the nazgul and the fell beasts out be so bad-@$$.

Take care all.

 

[FraserRonald]

I echo most of the comments already made here (good film but with flaws), but there are two words that really make this movie enjoyable for me--Miranda Otto

Abso-darn-lutely. Mr. Jackson did everything right with Eowyn. She's strong, stubborn, independent. It doesn't hurt that she's hot!

And I will also definitely see it again. There are parts I don't like, but overall, I think it's a fun movie. Again, I'd say it's inferior to FotR, but that's a tough rule to measure against.

Take care all.

 

[FraserRonald]

Faramir: I didn't see him as Boromir II, simply because I think Boromir would have TAKEN the ring given identical circumstances. Faramir is a man in a war, trying to decide what is best for his nation. When he thinks taking the ring to Gondor is the right thing, he moves to do that. When he realizes it's not, he stands up for what he believes.
I don't see Faramir as a bastard at all.

Actually, I see Boromir as much more sympathetic than Faramir. Boromir controlled his desire for the ring much longer than Faramir, and he was honest and up front about it. I think that, yes, by the time FotR came to a close, if he had the hobbits in the same position he would do the same, but at least we are allowed to see why, to sympathise. We get nothing of this from Faramir, simply "Oh yeah, that's too bad. Right, let's get this walking treasure to my dad." And then Sam makes one speech and it's "Oh, really? Gee, I haven't believed a word you've said until now and I've ignored your pleadings, but since I've already dragged you this far out of your path, heck, I'll defy my father--and a death sentence--and let you go."

And, man, he looked cruel when his archers had Gollum in their sights. I could never see Boromir, as realized in FotR, murder in cold blood like that.

I don't know, maybe there will be a payoff in RotK. Others have said that Mr. Jackson knows more about movie making than people like me. Absolutely. I'll be really interested to see where this goes.

Theoden: I don't care about him, he merely existed to set the stage for the real heroes Anyone that would hire a man named Wormtongue as an advisor deserves what he gets!

Yeah, but if you really want Aragorn and the others to look like heroes, put them beside other heroes and show how well they stand on their own and surpass others. Lowering the bar only makes their accomplishments that less impressive.

And I think the name came after, though I guess that call would also apply to someone hiring a guy named Grima! I mean, a little too close to grime.

But that's just my 2 cents and a bit.

 

[Vocenoctum]

I think Boromir was just going along with it because others were around. When alone, he'd try to convince Frodo to give him the ring by reason, then he would have taken it.

I also think the ring is a little more impatient right now (complete with elven dialogue telling us how it's trying to reach the Hand of Man... a bit heavy that...)

I don't think he intended to shoot Gollum. I think he was testing Frodo, who had just told him that Gollum wasn't with him.

But, as I mentioned in another post, I haven't read the books in a long time (15 years at least) and I'm not comparing Faramir to Book Faramir. I think Movie Faramir and Movie Boromir are different though, if only in that Boromir is more emotional and passionate, while Faramir is more reserved.

Faramir is a vulcan, thats it!

 

[King_Stannis]

Just saw it this evening. Certainly not as overwhelming as FotR, but very good. Loved the transformation of Theoden, loved Brad Douriff as Wormtongue, the battle at Helms Deep and the Ents rage. Of course Gollum was spectacular. Oh, OLIPHANTS! Nuff said.

A couple of scenes could have been chopped IMHO. Aragorn falling over the cliff, leading to yet another Arwen cut-in-scene seemed like a waste of 4-5 minutes of time. I can't remember if this was in the book. Even if it was, it could have easily been chopped out. Other than giving Arwen another appearance it only solidified the fact that Gimli, Legolas and Eowyn think very highly of Aragorn. Obviously that was something that had already been established.

Faramir's temptation left me uneasy. It wasn't a deal breaker, but I was shaking my head at times.

Sam's speech at the end (taken directly from the book it sounded like) was very strong - very emotional. I love the way he is being portrayed by Sean Astin.

Grade for TTT A-
Grade for FotR A+

Considering all the crap that's coming down the pike (after seeing the previews) we oughta relish this rare time.

 

[demiurge1138]

Abso-darn-lutely. Mr. Jackson did everything right with Eowyn. She's strong, stubborn, independent. It doesn't hurt that she's hot!

Yes, but doesn't it seem a little Monty Python that she's apparently the only woman in Rohan with clean hair?

Overall, a great movie. One that can be nit-picked, certainly, but a great movie nonetheless. Gollum was fantastic, the scale epic, and, yes, Gimli had all the best lines.

Only 362 days 'till RoTK

Demiurge out.

 

[Celtavian]

Re

Faramir did not desire the ring. That is the part no one seems to notice. He had not individual desire for the ring.

If you watch it a second time, hopefully you will see that Faramir desired to give to his father what he wanted. I think PJ was setting up the confrontation in the RotK. I will have to wait a year to prove this true, but that is how I perceived the occurrence with Faramir.

PJ did not include the talk that Frodo, Sam and Faramir had while staying at the hidden cave, so Sam was not the one who revealed the ring and and its terrible power to Faramir. They just weren't able to include the dialogue exchanges that led to Faramir's decision in a movie already too long to begin with.

So, Peter Jackson, compartmentalized the information Faramir needed to come to his decision in short bursts. He used Gollum to reveal the presence of the ring, which Sam originally did in the book. Then he used the scene with the Nazgul and Sam's outburst to let Faramir know the true danger of the ring.

Once Faramir saw how dangerous the ring was, he released Frodo and Sam, thus, showing his wisdom. Fararmir was wise, but even a wise leader can not make choices without information. That is the only difference with Faramir's character is the way he received the information.

Faramir is the same character. Watch it more closely. There is not one line where Faramir has a personal desire for the ring. He does not even look at the ring more than once that I can remember. He is not drawn to it like Boromir was, nor is he like Boromir but in appearance.

The more I watch and think about Fararmir's character, the closer he seems to the book version. I just think Jackson had to get him to his decision a different way.

Even in the book, Faramir was hard-pressed to make a decision about Frodo and Sam. I think they showed this in the movie, but Jackson really didn't have the time to develop the scene as it was in the book. The movie was just too short to develop a scene that was a chapter and a half in length.

 

[Chain Lightning]

Saw the movie opening day and loved it. I can't wait to go see it again. Going to try Sunday night.

Like others, I have my nit-picks too. But, they are relatively small flaws in my eyes. Some of these small mistakes I can understand how they might've happened. Others, I think seemed rather easy to correct, but were not. Which is odd. But I understand that LotR is a huge juggling of hundreds upon hundreds of tasks. Things are bound to get overlooked. I felt the storytelling ability was a bit better in FotR.

Here are my list of things I disliked:

1.) I didn't get a sense as to how Faramir came to the knowledge that his brother was dead. In the book it explains how he knows. But not in the movie. Unless my head spaced out during the scene where they explain that.

2.) The gift giving scene in FotR was trimmed down to only include Frodo's gift. Obviously for time. Editing FotR I imagine being a battle for mere seconds even. However, I would've still fought hard to find a way to include all the gifts each member of the fellowship recieved.

We can skip Celeborn's warning to Aragorn and also some of Galadriel's longer conversation with Aragorn. Just keep it to the bare minimum for audiences to register each gift. I don't think it would've hurt the movie to be a minute or two longer.

However, now....if you haven't seen the extended DVD version, certain things don't make sense. Why does Frodo's cloak change color and texture to match the rocks? Where did those daggers come from that were found in the pile of burnt Orc remains? When did Samwise pack his bags full of Lembas? (ok, the Lembas is no biggie....but the humor tied to his dialogue concerning them in TTT isn't as solid as it would be without seeing the extra scene in the extended version)

Of course, if I wanted to play the game of being super ultra nit-picky I could bring out the whole thing with the Moria goblins/orcs.
Which is: Why wouldn't Saruman send a large detachment of these wall climbers to the siege of Helm's Deep? Now, its been a while since I've read the books. But I remember having the sense that those orcs were not a part of Saruman's army. They were just there. So that could be used as a reason. But in the movie, none of the storytelling makes it clear where those Moria goblins/orcs stand. To the casual viewer, it is assumed that Sauron and Saruman have leadership over all goblins, orcs, and uruk-hai. Its a fuzzy area. I don't like to see many fuzzy areas.

3.) A lot of the editing. Mostly in the first act. The segues between the different characters were often times very abrupt. Not very smooth. The ending too, I felt, could use some smoothing out as well. Its like all of a sudden the Helm's Deep threat kinda vanishes and you got Gandalf and friends riding heroic like to a rise that looks out to Mordor. Hey...don't they got to go to Isengard first before facing east to Gondor? I figure these will smooth out when the special extended DVD arrives. But that doesn't excuse the theatrical release from this flaw.

4.) Why did Elrond send Haldir and his elves to Helm's Deep? He doesn't have his own guys?

Now let me tell you what I do love about this movie:

1.) Yes, as was stated earlier. Mirando Otto is very charismatic and attractive as Eowyn. I can stare at her scenes over and over.

2.) Gandalf's battle with the Balrog was truly awesome. Now that's fantasy!

3.) Oddly, there were moments where I got rather misty eyed. I'm usually immune to such pulling of heart strings. However, TTT got me a few times. Can't remember all the moments. But one I do remember was when Theoden was at his son's grave with Gandalf. Another was when Gandalf, Eomer, and the other riders charged in the front ranks of the orcs as the light hit them from behind. That imagery, to me......just personifies what I think of when I think of fantasy stories.

4.) Gollum is was truly a great cgi character. Never did I lose the illusion that he was who he suppose to be.

5.) The Easterlings. I can't say how much respect I give to Jackson for allowing/guiding the art dept. to do this awesome job they've done on LotR. The Easterlings is yet another fine example of their work. Yet another outfit from LotR I'd love to have as a costume come Halloween. *sigh*

6.) Oliphants!

I don't have any problems with some of the other things being discussed. I was fine with Faramir. I liked him. I thought the change was warranted. And it made sense to me. I don't mind the Warg scene either. Wargs look good to me. Nothing wrong with the Fangorn forest in my eyes. I think people think it looks off because its a fantastical forest. Not a real location. I know of no Earth forest that looks like this, thus why it seems odd to us. It only exists on Middle-Earth.

Great movie. Loads of enjoyment. A must for us D&D guys. IMHO

And like others have said, where else can we get our fantasy movie fix? I've watched Conan so many times that I can't take it no more. Its like eating pizza for a year. LotR is the Kwisatz Haderach to the Dune planet that is the fantasy film wasteland.