Dragonlance Lord Soth’s stats and CR

Since this is going to be a thing, let’s make it its own thing.

Let’s run some numbers to see how the party at the end of SotDQ would fair against Lord Soth.

A focus on actual numbers inatead of endless opining would, I hope, settle things a bit quicker.
The problem with this scenario is that to get to Soth at where he's placed in the adventure, any party would have to encounter, at minimum, the following:

1. lesser death dragon (CR 10)
2. two skeletal knights (CR 7) and a minotaur skeleton
3. two skeletal knights
4. Caradoc, one of Soth's lieutenants (CR 8)
5. Werstern Kern, one of Soth's lieutenants (CR 14)
6. Two skeletal knights

That's just taking the fastest route, which of course any characters coming into the flying citadel don't know. They're likely to enter any number of the dozen or so remaining rooms just trying to find the route to Soth (or from just exploring), which have even more encounters. And they have to do this in a constrained timeline, with no opportunity for a long rest before the citadel reaches and destroys Kalaman.

There's no chance they come into a potential Lord Soth fight without being significantly down in resources and spells, and are likely down at least some hit points as well, depending on how many healing resources/spells they've used.
Last edited:

log in or register to remove this ad

I think people should also look at that Implacable Manuever trick.

If your group isn't spaced adequately, how many PCs will he hit each time he uses that - since it's passing within 5-feet of a target. He could run between party members and knock them prone (Strength DC 20 save). That's three times, and recharges on the start of his turn. Being prone is going to be pretty viciously bad I would think.

Or, you have your speedy rogue go first, and then at the end of the rogue's turn, Soth Banishes the fighter. that would be bad.

it depends... my 6th level bladesinger can call a26 AC, and if he attacks me 3 times it will hurt (he almost for sure will hit me 1 out of 3 tries) but he ain't dropping me without a crit.
my 9th level armor artificer can't call a 26 but walks around with a 21 or 22 and can't be crit, and if he hit me with all 3 attacks he would need to do above average to drop me.
Why would he bother smacking you when he can just tell you to die, and you probably fail the Con save and die.

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
That blue dragon must have fought very poorly. Soth's HP is not the factor that matters, it's the fact he can kill the whole party very fast.
If he's as dangerous as you say (and I still don't agree), then why is he statted in the adventure at all? From what you're claiming, he would just kill the party straight up, and would have no reason to do otherwise if they come after him. If that's not the intention, why provide the statblock?


B/X Known World
Okay. So let's have some actual abilities and average numbers.

5E's assumed party of four. Which four? Let's go classic Coke. Cleric, fighter, rogue, and wizard. Everyone's 10th level.

Base hit points (ignoring CON mods) for those characters would be (minimum/average/maximum): Cleric 17/53/80, fighter 19/64/100, rogue 17/53/80, wizard 15/42/60. Of these the cleric and fighter are the only two to likely have a CON mod big enough to matter. In reality their HP would likely be somewhere between the average and max.

So, one thing jumps right out. If facing off against the average HP party and Soth opens up with that necro-fireball, dealing average damage, and if everyone fails their saves...that's almost a one-shot TPK. The cleric and wizard will likely fail their DEX save. The fighter might make their save, but probably not. The rogue certainly will. It's 1/2 or nothing for the rogue. Still, an opening salvo of 35-70 damage is going to hurt. And a lonely 10th-level rogue isn't going to win against Soth.

Soth's power word kill deals 50-100 damage. Which, even if the targeted PC saves against, will take any one of these down...unless they're at full average HP at least. Which, given the context of the actual encounter with Soth in the module, is very likely impossible.

Soth has a +12 to-hit and 3-4 attacks per round. At 10th level the party can expect to have 1-2 PCs with higher than 20 AC, maybe 2-3 depending on the cleric's domain. The wizard will likely have shield, so can burn a few slots to maybe avoid being hit. But when Soth hits, he's dealing an average of 28 damage and that rider prevents healing for a round. Three hits on any one of the PCs is enough to take them down. Only two on the wizard. And that no-healing-for-you rider is a killer.

Soth's movement legendary is beefy. Especially since you can move between attacks. Move, knock prone, attack prone target with advantage...move, knock prone, attack prone target with advantage. Regular move of 30ft, three legendary moves for another 90ft, anyone within 5ft of his 90ft of legendary movement will likely be knocked prone (and nothing says he can't zig-zag to get multiple passes on the same target), and he can pepper in his regular movement and attack the prone targets. All the while getting advantage on prone targets, not provoking, and prone targets having disadvantage on attacking him.

And that's not even touching his spellcasting: command, hold person, dispel magic, and banishment.

Soth has both magic resistance and legendary resistance, so spells are unlikely to really affect him.

A referee playing him even halfway smart would wipe the floor with even a fully rested 10th-level party. Soth has a few great openers. 1) Necro-fireball the party, legendary move, legendary attack the cleric. If that combo doesn't outright kill the cleric, the cleric will die next round when Soth focuses on the cleric until they're dead, then spread the love. 2) Power word kill the cleric, legendary move, legendary attack the cleric. Again, if they're not already dead, they will be next round after the necro-fireball. 3) Either of the above only ignore the cleric and let them waste time and slots trying to heal the party. 4) Legendary movement, legendary attack, regular movement, and multiattack to hit everyone in the party with that no-healing-for-you attack. Then necro-fireball the group. A well-timed banishment, hold person, or command would also wreck the party.

So looking at the actual abilities and some average numbers it looks like in two, maybe three, rounds Soth would TPK the party. For the PCs to even have a chance they'd need to be power gamed to the hilt and avid wargamers who coordinate and strategize in their sleep.

it depends... my 6th level bladesinger can call a26 AC
Saving throws matter more. Can your bladesinger reliably make DC 19 CHA, DEX and CON saves, and do they have more than 85 hp?

Which of course, brings in another factor - the tactical skills of the DM. If they have Soth attacking a bladesinger with his sword, then Soth losing is on the DM.

An Advertisement