Loss of Innate Spellcasting (or 'How Dragons Build Lairs')

[Conjurer]

Although my first reaction was of shock, now that I've thought it over a little more, I think this is a positive thing, as long as dragons can acquire class levels.

A little Wizard or Warlock and presto, spellcasting Dragon.

 

[Scholar & Brutalman]

Q: How do dragons build lairs?

A. Dragons do not build lairs. They take lairs.

When a lair gets too small for them, they go and take another.

 

[kennew142]

A. Dragons do not build lairs. They take lairs.

When a lair gets too small for them, they go and take another.

That's what I always thought. Don't dragons specialize in driving dwarves out of their delvings?

 

[AllisterH]

Dragons using wizard spells is such a D&D'ism, and goes back to 1E where that particular ability was added to make them better combat monsters. They were horribly weak for such an iconic monster, not coming close to stacking up against demons and devils. The fact that there were one or two spells they could take that explained away the "how do they do that without hands" issues was completely incidental. I for one am glad they're making them more like their counterparts in myth and fiction, and not a big wizard-in-a-lizard.

This is the same reason why in 1E, the so-called martial BBEG villain, the Death Knight, had fireball as a spell. Melee quite frankly, sucked.

I think in 4E that melee is a viable alternative for a BBEG.

 

[rkanodia]

Although my first reaction was of shock, now that I've thought it over a little more, I think this is a positive thing, as long as dragons can acquire class levels.

A little Wizard or Warlock and presto, spellcasting Dragon.

Hopefully, the Wizard Training and Warlock Training feats will enable you to add a useful ability or two (and a lot of flavor) without having to pile on all the class-level-related baggage that goes with it.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

A. Dragons do not build lairs. They take lairs.

When a lair gets too small for them, they go and take another.

So, dragons are essentially giant fire-breathing hermit crabs?

 

[Scholar & Brutalman]

So, dragons are essentially giant fire-breathing hermit crabs?

I was actually thinking the same thing when I wrote it, but I decided not to put it in.

My iconic dragon is Smaug. He is intelligent, but he does not create - he steals; and he is too arrogant to learn magic that is not inherent to him. I've always found the Eberron or Shadowrun style dragons to be "just wrong" because of this; it's probably the same reaction that longtime planescape fans have when they find out that "Eladrin" means "High Elf" in 4e. To me, they're just not dragons.

 

[Plane Sailing]

That's what I always thought. Don't dragons specialize in driving dwarves out of their delvings?

W.W.S.D?

(What Would Smaug Do?)

 

[FourthBear]

Although my first reaction was of shock, now that I've thought it over a little more, I think this is a positive thing, as long as dragons can acquire class levels.

A little Wizard or Warlock and presto, spellcasting Dragon.

From what I'm guessing about 4e monster and NPC building, it will be considerably easier than even that. Once you've picked the level for your monster, I think you'll have guidelines in the DMG for the kind of powers are appropriate for a monster of that level (e.g., Xd6 area effect attacks, ranges for attack rolls, when to consider allowing tactical teleportation). Then you don't select a feat that allows you take wizard abilities. You don't add wizard levels onto the monster (and have to recalculate all of its stats). You just *add* the abilities you think are appropriate. Want a troll able to breathe flame? Look up its level and work out the numbers that are appropriate for that level. And just add it. There will no doubt be suggestions as to how when adding too much is just that. But I think they're going to remove the whole "add a class" minigame from monster design. And I suspect the same thing will happen with humanoids. The latest Monster Manuals have a number of examples of monstrous humanoid write-ups for spellcasters. And the spellcasters don't have wizard or sorceror levels. They just have a selection of magical abiltiies that would be useful in a typical encounter.

 

[Conjurer]

Hopefully, the Wizard Training and Warlock Training feats will enable you to add a useful ability or two (and a lot of flavor) without having to pile on all the class-level-related baggage that goes with it.

I hadn't thought of the class-training feats, and that's an even better idea.

From what I'm guessing about 4e monster and NPC building, it will be considerably easier than even that. Once you've picked the level for your monster, I think you'll have guidelines in the DMG for the kind of powers are appropriate for a monster of that level (e.g., Xd6 area effect attacks, ranges for attack rolls, when to consider allowing tactical teleportation). Then you don't select a feat that allows you take wizard abilities. You don't add wizard levels onto the monster (and have to recalculate all of its stats). You just *add* the abilities you think are appropriate. Want a troll able to breathe flame? Look up its level and work out the numbers that are appropriate for that level. And just add it. There will no doubt be suggestions as to how when adding too much is just that. But I think they're going to remove the whole "add a class" minigame from monster design. And I suspect the same thing will happen with humanoids. The latest Monster Manuals have a number of examples of monstrous humanoid write-ups for spellcasters. And the spellcasters don't have wizard or sorceror levels. They just have a selection of magical abiltiies that would be useful in a typical encounter.

I actually liked the whole 'add a class' minigame as you call it, in as much as it gave me the tools to create more personalized encounters, and as long as there is a mechanism in place to add class abilities to the dragon (or any other monster, for that matter), then I'll be a happy DM.