Lost

[satori01]

The drowning scene at the beginning left me with the same impression as the beginning of the first episode, actually. There were, what, a dozen people standing around on the beach? WTF? Jack is the ONLY one that can swim? Okay, we find out later that the other guy (the lifeguard!) was there, too, but still, I'm left wondering WTF.

People often do freeze in those situations especially when it occurs in water. I've seen swimmers drowning in water with suffers near by looking on in horror and doing nothing. Common sense would say for one of the surfers to give up their board to the drowning person, but often times it doesnt dawn on them.

Beyond this, water rescues of drowning persons are probably one of the most dangerous things someone might have to do, and the likelyhood of an untrained "rescuerer" also turning into victom is rather high in rough rip tide like seas.

 

[WizarDru]

That I can understand, but watching someone drown, and getting up from a plane crash are both life-or-death situations. Isn't it common sense to get away from a plane crash (or car crash) before something bad happens to you? I'd find it much more realistic if we saw some of the others doing something, anything, besides standing around like sheep while someone's life is in danger.

Yes, but watching someone drown isn't your life or death situation. I'm sure there were other folks who could swim, but as satori01 mentions, untrained rescue of a drowning person is dangerous...that's why lifeguards have to be trained for the task. Rescuing someone from drowing several hundred feet out in the surf? Intimidating. (and remember, the drowning person was a scuba diver, so she wasn't inexperienced..although I doubt many knew this).

However, in these situations, many folks also just freeze up. The very famous case of Kitty Genovese (although exaggerated) is the perfect illustration of "bystander effect". Once Jack and the stuck-up guy went to try an save her, no one else felt the need to do anything, especially since there were other folks there. The psychological effect is that, in a crowd, people are less likely to help, as they expect someone else will do it.

As for not doing anything after a plane crash...well, there's a reason flight attendants get training for it. Even then, most survivors need serious counseling to deal with survivor guilt and other issues. Here's a quote from an article from a psych journal that compares the similarities and differences of crash survivors and Vietnam War veterans:
"In general, flight attendants reported that their emergency preparedness training as safety professionals served them well, so that they were able to focus on carrying out tasks that contributed to the safety of passengers and their fellow crew members rather than being overwhelmed by fear and shock. After the crash or hijacking was over and they found that they had survived, however, they felt a strong need to process the thoughts and feelings that occurred both during and after the event."

So, last night several things gelled, for me.

1) Jack has accepted his role as leader.
2) Locke DID see the creature
3) A romance is starting between Charlie and Claire (or becoming more concrete, anyways...the hints have been there for some time).

Was it a Ghost? What did Jack do?
My theories: No, it was a hallucination, possibly from Jack's subconscious. The sneakers part still bothers me, though. I suspect that Jack's dad was addicted to pain-killers and/or alcohol, and Jack learned or KNEW that his father performed surgery while under the influence...and possibly was killing people due to it. Note the relevance of the memory: he tells Jack (and really, I think, himself) that he doesn't have what it takes, and mentions that a boy died while he was operating on him...while he downs a scotch. Given the more recent flashbacks, that leads me to believe he was not unlike William Macy's character on ER, just far less empathetic.

Locke: in his element. His advice certainly shows that he was ready for walkabout, don't it?

Boone and Sawyer proved to be the most odd to me, this episode. What the hell is up with Boone, anyhow? He's irritating in the extreme, now...every bit as much as his sister. Sawyer is just an enigma. He's an ass, but I don't think he's as bad as he first appears. He's certainly in a lot of pain, and has no way to properly express it. I don't like him, but he's an intriguing character...and that's a mark of good writing.

I know Hurley technically isn't a 'main' character...but I love the guy. He's just so much damned fun, and it's nice to see an actor on a show who's not a fashion model and also isn't pure comedy relief. They've managed to make him amusing, without seeming to be the butt of lots of jokes. Of course, he also presents a challenge, of sorts...if he survives the forty days of season one, he should be loosing considerable weight. How the actor is going to deal with that, I don't know.

 

[jasper]

Okay I got to see all of last nights episode and been picking up various parts of the others. Is everyone of the passengers nuts or coming in high stressed. The leader had daddy' problems. the cripple was paying 89.95 an hour to talk to phone girl and fell in love with her, the kid ugh etc. Looks very interesting but it can rapidly become stuck in the Star Trek mode ( we only kill off the extras).
I willing to set aside my disbelief on the extras and let them be spear carriers. But The fat guy did not sweat at all last night. Looks like could be a good series just doing cultrue crashes. Hey you could steal from Star Trek NG and steal the language lesson.
I will try to remember to watch the replay on Saturday.

 

[Caius]

last nights episode was an interesting one, I didn't really like it as much as last weeks though.

What I don't get is why was the coffing empty? Maybe his father was never in the coffin in the first place which in theory might explain why Jack was seeing him all over the island. Or the obvious thing with his father was to make him ready to make the decisions people were looking to him to make, such as finding fresh water.

I wonder if the dolls were on the ship, if not it's strange thing about the island.

as for the whole drowning thing at the beginning, I don't think it was so much to show Jack's nature but to show what the other guy was like. Somehow I get the feeling that something like that is going to come up again with that guy *i don't know his name*

 

[fett527]

I thought the episode was good, Locke's story last week was just more of a mystery and was more entertaining. I think most people kind of guessed what Jack's background probably was like, though I didn't see the coffin transport coming. I am interested to see what they do with Jack's "hallucination" after finding the coffin empty. I certainly got more interested in the episode as it went along. Locke so far is making the show for me. (It's always odd when you have actors on different shows at the same time, especially when you watch them back to back. Terry O' Quinn plays a General on the West Wing currently as well.)

Caius,
You mentioned the dolls and where they came from. I do believe as they panned up to the crashed section of the plane you could see broken doll boxes spilling out of some strewn luggage in the wreckage. Someone can correct me if that's not how they saw it.

 

[Negative Zero]

That I can understand, but watching someone drown, and getting up from a plane crash are both life-or-death situations. Isn't it common sense to get away from a plane crash (or car crash) before something bad happens to you? I'd find it much more realistic if we saw some of the others doing something, anything, besides standing around like sheep while someone's life is in danger.

i think you're giving the average person a little too much credit. (as i've been known to do also.) in my experience, the average person is very much like a mindless sheep and actually needs someone to tell them what to do. you really ought not to judge the bulk of people by the standards of your gamer friends . oh and, getting away from a plane crash site might be common sense, but common sense is certainly not "common" nor usually enough to overpower the morbid fascination that most people have for disasters/accidents.

... what does the doctor's mother refer to as "what he did"? Why was the coffin empty? Was that really his father? Why did his father skitz out and go to Sydney?

i'm with Steve. i think that Jack's not really a doctor. perhaps he couldn't handle med school or residency (not an uncommon occurence). or maybe he he got caught operating "under the influence" like his father, as WizarDru suggests. (a suggestion that has a LOT of merit, i think.) as to why Sydney, it could have just been a conveinent way to get JAck on the plane or there might be a specific attachment to Sydney/Australia for his father.

the coffin could be empty because Jack was never able to get the Sydney authroities to allow his father on the plane. his speech to the ticketing agent didn't seem likely to work. first of all, i doubt she really would have accepted his "i need it to be over" speech. and even if she was moved by it (though i would expect her to be more jaded towards passenger pleas, unless of course she was new) i doubt she would be able to do anything. i don't see how she could have circumvented the customs regulations of the country as an airline employee. he may have simply planned to take the empty coffin back to the US, bury it, and either hope no one exhumes it or try to covertly get the body into it at a later date.

i think that it was "really his father" in the sense that he was who jack needed to make his peace with. but his father is clearly dead and so corporally, it could not be him. unless of course,the whole manifestation idea is true and that powerful to boot.

i find it slightly odd that Locke has become so lucid so quickly. in the flashbacks we were shown that he was slightly off balance mentally. (he was self admittedly in psychotherapy and had a clearly unhealthy attachment to some chic at the pricey end of a 900 number.) then again, the mental healing and his lucidity could have been accelerated by his physical healing. as i've mentioned earlier, his mental imbalance might have even made it possible for his miracle to happen. it seems to be a widely held notion in psudoscience and fantasy that such people are more open to things out of the ordinary than the rest of us.

what's most curious to me at this point is; what the deal is with Boone (God's Friggin Gift To Humanity as televisionwithoutpity.com puts it ... awesome site, btw thanks Fast Learner!). first he tries to take the gun and ammo in Pilot Pt.2, and last night he steals the water. what's up with that? plus, his reaction to Jack for saving his life is a bit ... odd. though i suppose it could be attributed to guilt, it still felts like it was going against the character he's trying to portray.

i didn't for a minute buy that sawyer stole the water. i knew we were meant to think that he had, but i was sure it was someone else. i agree that he's probably not the badass he's trying to portray. he's likely hiding behind the tough-guy image as a defense mechanism. i was very happy to see that the shot of Kate telling him "get off me" was not nearly as sinister as the preview clip made it seem.

i missed that last few minutes or so of the show, i forgot to pad my TiVo season pass. con someone recap? oh and there was a broken crate of dolls, fett527.

~NegZ

 

[Shallown]

The way I see Jack's story is that his father says he could handle it but he really couldn't. I mean after losing the boy in surgery (when he made his big speech to Jack) he had a drink. I think his drinking continued to the point of binging becuase he couldn't handle it. I think Jack's "Story" is he can handle it despite what his parents have told him.

The empty coffin I think always was that way since we didn't see the airport person say agree to his impassioned speech. security being what it is today in that industry. I think his smashing it was a way for him to admit it was okay to fail. He was getting out his anger/frustration at failing.

And Yeah they showed an smashed open box of dolls at the crash site he found.

As far as the seperate sections of plane. I just think that is more plot than reality drivenin that the need goals on the island. Ie finding other sections and such.

I think they really need a gamer to straighten them out. I think crashing on a deserted island is something we might have at least thought about before and I would like to think we wouldn't be wandering around not knowing what to do. But I often think that when I watch TV and movies. Like "Dang a Gamer would never do that... " Of course that may be wishful thinking. My wife keeps saying Locke is the closest thing they have for now and he seems to be doing something.

Later

 

[RatPunk]

It was my impression that the coffin was empty because the airline or customs people wouldn't let his father's body out of the country without all the proper paperwork and such, as was talked about in the airport flashback. Jack seeing his father was an hallucination brought on by all the medical reasons Jack mentioned to Locke (dehydration, stress, lack of sleep) plus his growing unease with being thrust into the leadership role by the other survivors, which was something his father pretty much raised him to believe he couldn't handle.

 

[WizarDru]

What I don't get is why was the coffing empty? Maybe his father was never in the coffin in the first place which in theory might explain why Jack was seeing him all over the island. Or the obvious thing with his father was to make him ready to make the decisions people were looking to him to make, such as finding fresh water.

I wonder if the dolls were on the ship, if not it's strange thing about the island.

The coffin could have been empty because his father's body fell out during the crash, before it landed. Not likely, though, since it wasn't that banged up. More likely, the writers are just messing with us (TM). They're trying to create a sense of ambiguity....which is fine, as long as they really do know the answer beforehand. Twin Peaks greastest failing, IMHO, was that they seemed to have made it up as they went along, so that when they did provide an answer to the initial mystery, it was unsatisfying and (iirc) had inconsistincies with prior clues.

As for the dolls, like fett says, there was a clear shot of a big box of them, still in their original packaging, spilling out of a container. It was freaky cool, but if it has any relevance beyond that, we'll have to wait and see.

 

[Crothian]

If the body was not allowed on the plane, why would they have an empt coffin? It is likely the body was there and got dragged away by wild animals. But I really think people are trying to look at this to logically. Its a TV show they are going to create situations and just fill in the blanks as they see fit.

And ya the dolls came from the plane, that seemed obvious.

So, if someone comes up to you and says "I've seen the eye of the island and its beautiful" or what ever it was that Locke said to Jack, wouldn't you ask for a bit more? And I don't buy that everyone would sit around and watch someone drown. But a lot of what the people are doing really is not making any sense, so I kept saying its ajust a TV show no really rooted in reality.