LOTR from a gamer's perspective

[takasi]

Real gamers would never throw away treasure.

 

[Numion]

Real gamers would never throw away treasure.

Yeah, I think the real gamer reaction would be:

Gandalf: "The ring is altogether evil blah blah where Sauron put all his power blah blah.."
Frodo: "O RLY?!?"
Gandalf: "YA RLY!"
Player: "I put on the ring and proclaim myself the Lord of the Rings! Sooo .. what abilities do I get .. damn I had to make a hobbit, I bet they don't make menacing armor in size xs :\"

 

[Prince of Happiness]

Hmm... good point. [sarcasm]Clearly, Tolkien was an imbecile for neglecting to address this obvious solution.[/sarcasm]

Ozmar the Amused

d00d totly! Toklein wuz such a n00b!

 

[Celebrim]

Or, more likely, Tolkien just didn't want to use them too often and so they always arrive at the last possible second because it seemed cooler in his mind.

Well, I'm glad I said something that you found worthy of responding to, but no. They arrive at the last second in keeping with his underlying Christian/Catholic view of how the world should be ordered.

Which is why Tolkien tried not to overuse them. Yes.

No. Tolkien gets wrongly accused of reaching for Deux ex Machina too often by people unfamiliar with what he was trying to say. By the nature of how the unexpected aid arrives, he's making statements about the nature of God as he percieves it.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Well, I'm glad I said something that you found worthy of responding to, but no. They arrive at the last second in keeping with his underlying Christian/Catholic view of how the world should be ordered.

E.G.: What he thought would be cool was if his world worked according to his religious beliefs.

No. Tolkien gets wrongly accused of reaching for Deux ex Machina too often by people unfamiliar with what he was trying to say. By the nature of how the unexpected aid arrives, he's making statements about the nature of God as he percieves it.

E.G.: "Deus Ex Machina."

You're saying the same thing molonel is, you're just taking longer to say it.

 

[Vocenoctum]

I want to add my own, non-eagle, ways that a gamer might rid the world of the One Ring.

1. Send an army of dwarves to mine their way under Mordor. Frodo can take the ring to the lava underground. If they make the tunnels right they could channel the lava for miles.

It's funny, since I had mentioned this in counter to the "build a giant magic catapult" theory put forth by someone in an IM. "May as well have the dwarves dig you a tunnel!".

At least the catapult has the advantage of test-shot hobbits bouncing against Minas Morgul though.

2. Convince the Ents to send Huorns and move a forest through Mordor. The orcs might not even notice all the trees don't belong in the wastelands of Mordor if they creep slowly through. In a quick rush, Sauron wouldn't be able to see a hobbit with the ring among all those trees.

"We take 20 on the Hide check"
"Do you know how long that would take?"
"Dude, we just spent 2 months in Rivendel waiting for road reports!"

I think it is likely that Tolkien failed to take into account any of these ideas. They definitley seem to be loopholes in his imperfect plot.

You forgot about training homing pigeons and sending them in with the ring.

Or maybe convince Saruman that he has to bathe in the red water of Mt Doom once he gets the ring... I'm sure someone in the group has some diplomacy!

 

[Vocenoctum]

E.G.: "Deus Ex Machina."

You're saying the same thing molonel is, you're just taking longer to say it.

It's acknowledged as Deus Ex Machina, but it's worked into the plot that such is logical. Thats sort of the point of the Eagles In Mordor thing, are the Eagles a plot hole, or does the fact that they didn't fly them there fit in with what was done.

 

[Rykion]

You forgot about training homing pigeons and sending them in with the ring.

I hear that they kept going off course, and ended up roosting on the Argonath. They sent Sam to clean the stains on the dignity of the kings of old.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

We had an interesting conversation over the weekend about LOTR if you were running it as a RPG. This is not system-based, like talking about MERP or D&D or GURPS, but rather a discussion about how fiction works differently from a RPG.

The obvious solution was to fly the ring into Mordor on the backs of giant eagles. Quicker, faster, less dangerous.

What do you think?

I think that even aside from the tactical* aspect, LotR doesn't work as an RPG, and gamers who think it does have been the bane of my existance at times.

"Mixed level parties are cool, just look at the Lord of the Rings!" - always from the guy playing the Gandalf equivelent, of course. To say nothing of DMs who think its cool to have important things happen to or around your characters rather than important things being done by them. Oh and destinies and prophecies...

A good RPG campaign can make a good story, but I would go so far as to say that the majority of good stories do not make good RPG campaigns.

*the giant eagle discussion reminds me of something I read about the making of Star Trek (orriginal series). The teleporter was introduced as a method of transportation simply because they couldn't make shuttle landings look good and they wanted to actually show the crew arriving on the surface of any given planet. So, teleporter. But once they had it, every single episode had to be contorted to say why they couldn't just beam out this week. If you have to, you can make it so the eagles wouldn't work, just like they made it so the teleporters wouldn't work, and for the same reason - so there will be a story. But it doesn't change the fact that both are really powerful and potentially plot destroying ideas that show what happens when falible humans attempt to create an entertaining reality.

 

[molonel]

Well, I'm glad I said something that you found worthy of responding to, but no.

Well, say something worth responding to more often, and I'll oblige.

....

They arrive at the last second in keeping with his underlying Christian/Catholic view of how the world should be ordered.

Right. I just can't possibly imagine a last-minute deus ex machina ending being written by an atheist, an agnostic or a pagan.

They arrive at the last second because arriving with an hour or two to spare just isn't as dramatic.

No. Tolkien gets wrongly accused of reaching for Deux ex Machina too often by people unfamiliar with what he was trying to say. By the nature of how the unexpected aid arrives, he's making statements about the nature of God as he percieves it.

Nobody cares WHY he did it, because ultimately a story stands on its own merits and not the blah-blah-blah explanations that authors like to fill our ears with. The latter are usually extremely brainy, usually written or constructed long afterward, and often wrong. The prefaces of Henry James's novels come to mind, or Thomas Merton's journals after his zeal cooled off and he chilled out.

Tolkien did reach for the god machine a little too often. But he was always learning, and his means of tying up stories in the trilogy and the hobbit, while quite similar, are certainly an improvement over some of the drivel you find in those mind-numbing tomes Tolkien's son churns out every few years.

It's acknowledged as Deus Ex Machina, but it's worked into the plot that such is logical. Thats sort of the point of the Eagles In Mordor thing, are the Eagles a plot hole, or does the fact that they didn't fly them there fit in with what was done.

Logical to you. Because, of course, it makes PERFECT sense that the eagles should not want to involve themselves into the affairs of men ... unless some scrawny dwarves and a hobbit need to be plucked out of trees, or an old man needs to be saved from a tower, or two smoldering hobbits need to be plucked from the side of a mountain, or some orcs need to be killed in a battle.

But other than that, they never really get involved, and keep to themselves.