LOTR from a gamer's perspective

[Celebrim]

But IME, when PCs go into a red dragon's lair, having them choking and crisped to a burn just by approaching, would make for encounters not as fun. I want my heroes leaping from unmelted rock to unmelted rock, twirling and tumbling around until they can gain the higher ground. Cause it's ll about the higher ground.

You are probably not alone in desiring that sort of cinematic experience, which is probably why the rules don't impose an air temperature on anything near lava.

I think that that is the best way to go about it, and while the exposure to heat rules could probably stand to have a little more detail (at some point damage would go up to faster intervals, save DC should scale with temperature, etc.), it is nice to have some standardized rule if you want it.

 

[Rykion]

I want to add my own, non-eagle, ways that a gamer might rid the world of the One Ring.

1. Send an army of dwarves to mine their way under Mordor. Frodo can take the ring to the lava underground. If they make the tunnels right they could channel the lava for miles.

2. Convince the Ents to send Huorns and move a forest through Mordor. The orcs might not even notice all the trees don't belong in the wastelands of Mordor if they creep slowly through. In a quick rush, Sauron wouldn't be able to see a hobbit with the ring among all those trees.

3. Force all the hobbits of the Shire to make a mad dash through Mordor. Some would make it to Mount Doom, and with luck one might be Frodo and the ring.

4. Dress Sam in drag and have him distract Sauron while Frodo sneaks to Mount Doom. Legolas might work better though.

5. Adventure through Middle Earth until the Fellowship level to the point that Sauron is no longer a threat to them. Aragorn can then take Sauron on one to one, while Frodo throws the ring into the lava.

I think it is likely that Tolkien failed to take into account any of these ideas. They definitley seem to be loopholes in his imperfect plot.

 

[Ozmar]

First, they can't be, period: Sauron doesn't have the means. Ballistae and bows aren't SAMs, they can't hit an eagle flying high enough, and enough would be like 1000 feet. Surely youre not suggesting that at 1000 feet you'll suffering from altitude sickness. Second, it doesnt' matter if they are spotted at all, since it takes relatively very little time to fly from the black gate or whatever Sauron thinks it's Mordor air space to the Orodruin, as it's said in the books; much less in fact than it'd take Saron to figure out what the hell are they doing, send a patrol, and the patrol to arrive at the volcano Sauron didn't have a reason to guard at all.

One thing to keep in mind in all this is that the heroes probably had imperfect knowledge about Sauron's capabilities. Maybe its true that Sauron could not have prevented a flight of eagles from landing on Mt Doom, but did Gandalf know that? And could he take that chance? Secrecy and stealth were his best tactics, in order to keep Sauron guessing as long as possible. Gandalf may not have known the full extent of Sauron's powers and resources.

Ozmar the Speculative

 

[Ozmar]

Why not send a pack of kaiju lv. 10 fighter/lv. 10 paladin/lv. 10kensai/lv. 10 dragon disciple hobbits on kaiju dire half-celestial lv. 20 mystic giant eagle half-girallons with +5 keen vorpal talons and beaks with +5 mithril feathers coated in oils of etheralness? I mean, duh. It's not like Sauron has +5 keen vorpal surface-to-air missles of Kaiju dire half-celectial Lv. 20 mystic giant eagle half-girallon slaying batteries.

Hmm... good point. [sarcasm]Clearly, Tolkien was an imbecile for neglecting to address this obvious solution.[/sarcasm]

Ozmar the Amused

 

[Numion]

One thing to keep in mind in all this is that the heroes probably had imperfect knowledge about Sauron's capabilities. Maybe its true that Sauron could not have prevented a flight of eagles from landing on Mt Doom, but did Gandalf know that? And could he take that chance? Secrecy and stealth were his best tactics, in order to keep Sauron guessing as long as possible. Gandalf may not have known the full extent of Sauron's powers and resources.

If they didn't have knowledge about Saurons capabilities, sending the ring there on foot seems equally st00pid. I mean, if he might've had radar-SAM batteries for the eagles, it would seem incredible he didn't have halfling detection capabilities.

In any case, the eagles could've been easily used to surpass Moria, Saruman, the swamps and the mountains surrounding Mordor. That would've left a fully rested fellowship to infiltrate Mount doom.

 

[iwatt]

In any case, the eagles could've been easily used to surpass Moria, Saruman, the swamps and the mountains surrounding Mordor. That would've left a fully rested fellowship to infiltrate Mount doom.

Without enough xp to defeat the BBEG. WHo wants to save the world at Level 1? Let your PCs at least reach name level

 

[WizarDru]

There's one character who seems left out of the discussion entirely. One character who tends to mess things up, over and over again, for the heroes.

I refer, of course, to the One Ring.

Let's not forget that the Ring was imbued with a portion of Sauron's will, and it exerted its own influence on the world and its bearers. Why did Gollum travel to the Misty Mountains? The Ring made him do so, driving him closer and closer to its master in the Mirkwood, then known as the Necromancer of Dol Goldur. Why did Isildur lose the ring? Why did Smeagol find it? How did Gollum lose it? How did it fall so conveniently on Frodo's finger at the Prancing Pony? Because the ring willed it so.

All it would take is for the ring to suddenly decide to slip it's chain or nudge Frodo from the eagle's back while they flew over Mordor....and now all hope is lost. The ring lost in a bog, fallen on an orc, claimed by an easterling buried in a ditch or reclaimed by a newly released Gollum. Who knows?

Were I the DM, that's what likely would happen. The Ring would effect its own escape.

 

[Numion]

All it would take is for the ring to suddenly decide to slip it's chain or nudge Frodo from the eagle's back while they flew over Mordor....and now all hope is lost. The ring lost in a bog, fallen on an orc, claimed by an easterling buried in a ditch or reclaimed by a newly released Gollum. Who knows?

Were I the DM, that's what likely would happen. The Ring would effect its own escape.

Why didn't that happen when Frodo was climbing the stairs near Minas Morgul? Or at any other point Frodo was high from the ground? Remember that if the eagles had been used, the ring wouldn't have had a lot of time to work on Frodos willpower.

Or if it's as easy as you say, why didn't it do that to Bilbo when he was riding the Middle-Earth sky-cabs in the book Hobbit?

 

[molonel]

More likely, Manwe - who has salient divine ability to see everything that happens on Middle Earth - sent them to provide help at the moment of triumph, precisely for the purpose of rescuing the hobbits (whose role as the chosen instruments of Illuvatar would have been clear to one that so well knows the mind of Illuvatar as Manwe). It's also probable that compassionate Varda, whose divine salient ability allows here to hear everything that happens on Middle Earth, had prompted Manwe to be ready to intervene to assist her vassal Olorin (Gandalf) once his great task had been completed.

Or, more likely, Tolkien just didn't want to use them too often and so they always arrive at the last possible second because it seemed cooler in his mind.

The eagles are Deus ex Machina, and not merely in the literary sense.

Which is why Tolkien tried not to overuse them. Yes.

 

[molonel]

I want to add my own, non-eagle, ways that a gamer might rid the world of the One Ring.

1. Send an army of dwarves to mine their way under Mordor. Frodo can take the ring to the lava underground. If they make the tunnels right they could channel the lava for miles.

2. Convince the Ents to send Huorns and move a forest through Mordor. The orcs might not even notice all the trees don't belong in the wastelands of Mordor if they creep slowly through. In a quick rush, Sauron wouldn't be able to see a hobbit with the ring among all those trees.

3. Force all the hobbits of the Shire to make a mad dash through Mordor. Some would make it to Mount Doom, and with luck one might be Frodo and the ring.

4. Dress Sam in drag and have him distract Sauron while Frodo sneaks to Mount Doom. Legolas might work better though.

5. Adventure through Middle Earth until the Fellowship level to the point that Sauron is no longer a threat to them. Aragorn can then take Sauron on one to one, while Frodo throws the ring into the lava.

I think it is likely that Tolkien failed to take into account any of these ideas. They definitley seem to be loopholes in his imperfect plot.

w00t!

Now that's some gamer thinking, there.