The latest batch of preview pages comes from the chapter describing classes (called "orders"). It all seems like a cleaned up d20, with multiple subclasses per main class (e.g. a Noble like the Steward of Gondor, or one like Bard who slew Smaug, or one like Bilbo of the Shire) and Special Abilities as Bonus Feats (to use D&D terminology).
LOTR RPG Update
- Thread starter JeffB
- Start date
ColonelHardisson
What? Me Worry?
I question the use of the phrase "cleaned up d20" to describe it. I'm not saying it looks bad, or like a mess, but it seems more like a "blown-up" version of d20. By "blown-up" I mean like those schematics that show everything pulled apart and in a lot more detail. I kind of like this for the classes. The other stuff we've seen does, indeed, seem strongly reminiscent of d20. This is interesting, because not only will it attract those who don't want a d20 version, it also could attract d20 fans for material to mine. While I still think a completely d20 version would've been great, and may have sold even better than this will, this could be a good game, based on what has been posted.
...and the d20 Middle Earth site is there for any conversions that are done, since Matt has let us know fan conversions are OK
...and the d20 Middle Earth site is there for any conversions that are done, since Matt has let us know fan conversions are OK
JeffB
Legend
I think the good Col. Made an interesting point...
I personally, and my player's, love the D20 mechanic. It's similar to Earthdawn, and D6 Star Wars which my group and I love.
However, 3E and D20SW has been a love/hate affair for us due to the added complexity underlying the mechanic (the rules). We play, get fed up after awhile with rules issues, then move along to something else...then try again a few months later.
It looks like Decipher's Coda system will give a similar mechanic with a simpler and less rigid rules base..which is what I've been hoping WOTC eventually will put out for 3E (a 3E "Lite" or "Basic 3E" if you will)
BTW..the ME-D20 site is quite good...while I may not mine it for rules-material, the setting information that is present is excellent, and I'd love to see some more of your 4th age material Colonel, up on the site..keep us updated!
I personally, and my player's, love the D20 mechanic. It's similar to Earthdawn, and D6 Star Wars which my group and I love.
However, 3E and D20SW has been a love/hate affair for us due to the added complexity underlying the mechanic (the rules). We play, get fed up after awhile with rules issues, then move along to something else...then try again a few months later.
It looks like Decipher's Coda system will give a similar mechanic with a simpler and less rigid rules base..which is what I've been hoping WOTC eventually will put out for 3E (a 3E "Lite" or "Basic 3E" if you will)
BTW..the ME-D20 site is quite good...while I may not mine it for rules-material, the setting information that is present is excellent, and I'd love to see some more of your 4th age material Colonel, up on the site..keep us updated!
Desdichado
Hero
JeffB, that would indeed be wonderful to see a "d20 Lite." I'm not holding my breath, though. And in general, I've been playing long enough now that I've smoothed over the rough parts through familiarity. And finding players for any other system is a beast!
That said, although I've said many times before that I'm not interested in another system, I'm actually finding myself curious, excited and curiously excited to see the ME system. Sounds tons better than the old Rolemaster-based MERP game, which I never really liked at all. And, just possibly, it's even a better system than d20!
That said, although I've said many times before that I'm not interested in another system, I'm actually finding myself curious, excited and curiously excited to see the ME system. Sounds tons better than the old Rolemaster-based MERP game, which I never really liked at all. And, just possibly, it's even a better system than d20!
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Olgar Shiverstone
Legend
I've been following this and the related threads with interest for a while now. Middle Earth got me into D&D, and it's time things came full circle.
The Decipher product looks great, but I'm still disappointed it's not d20. I'd prefer to mess with only one system.
What they do have posted, though, looks very suspiciously like the same rules system -- only "2d6" based instead of "d20" based. Most of the difference is in names. For example -- six core attributes, all cover the same thing. Looks like Strength=Strength, Nimbleness=Dexterity, Vitality=Constitution, Wits=Intelligence, Perception=Wisdom, Bearing=Charisma.
It should make it easier to convert, but the two systems look to be frustratingly similar. I want to scream "why not just make it d20?"
The unique aspects from d20 look to be:
- Four save types instead of three
- "level advancement" is a little broader -- add points to buy skill and the like
- "Flaws" offset "edges" (=feats)
- Combat skills are a subset of the rest of the skill system
- The magic system is different (same spell characteristics but a non-Vancian mechanic)
The last looks to be the most ME-like. Take D&D and tweak magic and I think you have ME pretty darn well. ColonelHardisson and company have done yeoman's work in that regard.
Am I on track, or missing something?
The Decipher product looks great, but I'm still disappointed it's not d20. I'd prefer to mess with only one system.
What they do have posted, though, looks very suspiciously like the same rules system -- only "2d6" based instead of "d20" based. Most of the difference is in names. For example -- six core attributes, all cover the same thing. Looks like Strength=Strength, Nimbleness=Dexterity, Vitality=Constitution, Wits=Intelligence, Perception=Wisdom, Bearing=Charisma.
It should make it easier to convert, but the two systems look to be frustratingly similar. I want to scream "why not just make it d20?"
The unique aspects from d20 look to be:
- Four save types instead of three
- "level advancement" is a little broader -- add points to buy skill and the like
- "Flaws" offset "edges" (=feats)
- Combat skills are a subset of the rest of the skill system
- The magic system is different (same spell characteristics but a non-Vancian mechanic)
The last looks to be the most ME-like. Take D&D and tweak magic and I think you have ME pretty darn well. ColonelHardisson and company have done yeoman's work in that regard.
Am I on track, or missing something?
Desdichado
Hero
I hear you man. I hear you loud and clear. However, on the bright side, at the time they started development they didn't really know what the whole OGL thing was going to be all about, and presumably they're hoping to capture brand new gamers that don't necessarily have the PHB, which is a requirement of d20 games. So, we can take the obvious similarities and mine them for d20 variants like crazy! In particular, I'm hoping the level-less advancement and the magic system are designed in such a way that they can be ported without a major migraine.Olgar Shiverstone said:
Apok
First Post
Well, the level-less system works basically like this.
Whenever a character earns 1000 experience points, he gains a level of advancement. When you gain a level of advancement, you gain Five "picks" which can be used to increase your current skills, gain new skills, gain spells, and (i think) gain Edges. That's all I've been able to glean from the Decipher forums, the preview and asking around.
The magic system should be easy enough to port over, but it might make spellcasters in standard 3e way too powerful as there is no limit to the number of spells you can cast in a day. Every time you cast a spell, you basically make a saving throw (in d20 terms, it would be a Fort save) and if you succeed, no problems. If you fail, you cast the spell but earn a Wearieness level (which is similiar to subdual damage, but Weariness affects your overall performance like being Fatigued in d20). I don't think the spells in LotR come close to the power level of the 3e spells (though I could be wrong) in some areas. Just imagine a mid to high level wizard being able to toss any 0th-4th level spell he knows around all day with little chance of accumulating fatigue.
On a more personal note, one of the reasons I am so looking forward to the LotR RPG is because the magic system seems more, well, "magical" to me. In D&D, magic has become a common everyday tool that everyone knows about and most people have easy access to. I'm really curious to see how this RPG handles the "feel" of magic.
Damn, I can't wait for this book!
Whenever a character earns 1000 experience points, he gains a level of advancement. When you gain a level of advancement, you gain Five "picks" which can be used to increase your current skills, gain new skills, gain spells, and (i think) gain Edges. That's all I've been able to glean from the Decipher forums, the preview and asking around.
The magic system should be easy enough to port over, but it might make spellcasters in standard 3e way too powerful as there is no limit to the number of spells you can cast in a day. Every time you cast a spell, you basically make a saving throw (in d20 terms, it would be a Fort save) and if you succeed, no problems. If you fail, you cast the spell but earn a Wearieness level (which is similiar to subdual damage, but Weariness affects your overall performance like being Fatigued in d20). I don't think the spells in LotR come close to the power level of the 3e spells (though I could be wrong) in some areas. Just imagine a mid to high level wizard being able to toss any 0th-4th level spell he knows around all day with little chance of accumulating fatigue.
On a more personal note, one of the reasons I am so looking forward to the LotR RPG is because the magic system seems more, well, "magical" to me. In D&D, magic has become a common everyday tool that everyone knows about and most people have easy access to. I'm really curious to see how this RPG handles the "feel" of magic.
Damn, I can't wait for this book!
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Sulimo
First Post
Joshua Dyal said:That said, although I've said many times before that I'm not interested in another system, I'm actually finding myself curious, excited and curiously excited to see the ME system. Sounds tons better than the old Rolemaster-based MERP game, which I never really liked at all. And, just possibly, it's even a better system than d20!
Each to their own is definitely the case here. Being a longtime fan of MERP/RM with an almost complete set of MERP materials, there isnt alot that will get me to buy the new game...the magic system is that one thing...probably. If anything, just to see if I can implant a facsimile of the magic system in MERP to solve the one problem I had with MERP.
Looking at the announced supplements though, I'm not terribly impressed. Compare any of those to the 400 page sourcebook on Arnor that ICE produced.
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