D&D 5E Low Level Grapple-Shove Builds

[Myzzrym]

Hey there folks!

I'm about to play in a new campaign and wanted to explore some Grapple-Shove Builds, and had a few ideas. Looking for inputs!

Now since it's the beginning of the campaign, I'm not planning for high level builds (like level 10+), so I may not be making the best "long-term" decisions. Also, I do not believe my DM allows for multiclassing so that's out.

I am currently hesitating between Human Fighter or Rogue:

Fighter:

• Focus on STR, fairly standard for Fighters
• Pick Prodigy Feat at level 1 to get Expertise on Athletics, buffing Grapple / Shove rolls. It's the only moment I can pick up Expertise since no Multiclassing.
• Game plan would be: Round 1 Grapple, Round 2 Shove, Round 3+ Lay down the pain (if the opponent hasn't escaped by then). Against multiple enemies, just go with Sword and Shield standard fighting.
• If I really want to lock down someone, do both with Action Surge.
• From level 4, pick up Shield Master Feat. Round 1 (empty hand + shield) Grapple => Shove (Bonus Action) => Drop Shield, Round 2 Draw sword and lay the pain. This way I always have one free hand to maintain grapple.
• Question: What archetype would fit best? I'm leaning towards Battle Master for utility, but I'm wondering if I'm missing some options.

Rogue:

• Focus on STR, which usually can be a dump stat for Rogue.
• Expertise is built in for Rogue, so I could go for another Race for bonus STR, or I'm wondering if I should go Moderately Armored Feat to get Shield Proficiency (for Shield Master at level 4).
• Game plan is the same, but I get Sneak Attack Bonus on top of the regular damage
• Level 4 Shield Master (if I got Moderately Armored), or the good old Lucky feat otherwise to reroll botched rolls.
• Question: What archetype would fit best? Arcane Trickster could add some utility when I can't get in melee.

From my perspective:

• Fighter gives me something more "safe", as it still gets access to good AC / HP, decent damage, features that can work in pretty much every situations.
• Rogue allows me for something that deals more damage with Sneak Attack once the setup is complete, more skills for outside combat, and Cunning Action helps me drag my victims away since I can dash with a bonus action.

At the moment I'm more leaning towards Rogue, although it kinds of bum me out to use my level 1 Feat just to get shield proficiency. However, I wasn't able to find a way to pack in Grapple + Shove quickly otherwise before level 5 (where you could use 1 attack to grapple & 1 attack to shove). I'm also toying around with the idea of Tavern Brawler Feat, but you can't do Shove followed by Grab (since you need to make an unarmed / improvised weapon attack to grapple as a Bonus Action, which shove isn't afaik) unlike Shield Master where you can do Grab followed by Shove (since you need only to do an Attack Action, which Grab is). So the only benefit would be that I can do an improvised weapon attack with my grab, but it would fall to the DM to allow Sneak Attack damage with it.

RP-speaking I'm basically playing a dirty fighter who goes for low blows and goes in close and personal with grappling and pushing people around, so both classes would fit.

What's your take on it?

 

[iserith]

I went valor bard with my luchador-inspired wrestler "Immovable Rod" Manleigh, champion of Grapplemania XXIII. Expertise in Athletics then I reflavored a bunch of his class features and spells accordingly. One of my favorite D&D 5e characters.

 

[Fenris-77]

Consider Barbarian too - they get advantage on STR checks when they rage, which would be good for your build. Plus they're really tank-y, which is a good trait in an up close and personal build.

 

[Myzzrym]

I thought about Barbarian, but I felt like they had the same issue than Rogues - they lack Expertise (although you do have advantage when you rage), they don't have access to Sneak Attack, and I would usually want to go for a 2 Handed Weapon. Plus, they don't really fit the "dirty street fighter" image I have of my character.

Although yea, you do end up being an incredibly intimidating tank that just runs in, grab one guy by the throat and slams him on the ground while laughing as his friends try to hurt you. I can see the appeal of that

@iserith: Mind elaborating on the valor bard? What did you take to make him work, wouldn't most spells require a free hand (on top of the grappling hand) meaning you'd go around empty handed? How did you get around doing damage, what did you do during fight? (Or did you just focus on CC)

 

[maxed]

I've been thinking about a grappler build lately. I was inspired by this thread:

D&D 5E - The Grappler's Manual (2.0) - Grappling in 5th Edition

~The Grappler's Manual~ Taking 5th Edition Combat to the Ground (2.0) It's hard to cast a spell when you are pinned to the ground in a zone of Silence. Good luck to any mobile, dual-wielding assassins when they are held in place by their collars. And even the toughest great-sword wielder might...

www.enworld.org

 

[Myzzrym]

@maxed That's exactly what prompted me to make this thread^^ I can't multiclass so the builds there won't help (though the various explanations really did)

 

[iserith]

@iserith: Mind elaborating on the valor bard? What did you take to make him work, wouldn't most spells require a free hand (on top of the grappling hand) meaning you'd go around empty handed? How did you get around doing damage, what did you do during fight? (Or did you just focus on CC)

He had the Tavern Brawler and War Caster feats. Usually I'd go with shield and unarmed strike. If there was something cool in the environment he could use as an improvised weapon, he'd use that (especially if it was a folding chair). Rod wasn't a damage-dealer - he set other people up for success through grapple-proning enemies and buffing allies or busting out useful utility spells.

 

[i_dont_meta]

If your DM allows UA's maybe think about the Paladin of Heroics (I think?) from last week's UA.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

Fighter:

• From level 4, pick up Shield Master Feat. Round 1 (empty hand + shield) Grapple => Shove (Bonus Action) => Drop Shield, Round 2 Draw sword and lay the pain. This way I always have one free hand to maintain grapple.

Rogue:

• Level 4 Shield Master (if I got Moderately Armored), or the good old Lucky feat otherwise to reroll botched rolls.

No you di'n't!

 

[Myzzrym]

No UA. Darn now I'm really hesitating between Bard and Rogue, because an entertainer Bard would also be fun to play (theatrics and all). I guess I'll leave it to the stat rolls, if I get something naughty word I'll do the dumb bouncer grapple rogue, if I get good rolls I can go MAD with WWE Bard.

EDIT: Looks like it's going to be Rogue, rolls were very average across the board. I've got 16 - 14 - 14 - 12 - 11 - 9. Thinking to go:

• Str: 16 +1 (Human VAR) +1 (Moderately Armored Feat) = 18
• Dex: 14
• Con: 14
• Int: 9
• Wis: 11 + 1 (Human VAR) = 12
• Cha : 12

Skills: Athletics (Soldier BG), Intimidation (Soldier BG), Sleight of Hand (Class), Stealth (Class), Perception (Class), Performance (Class), Acrobatics (human VAR)

Expertise: Athletics, Intimidation

Any input?