Low Level spellcasters -- what use are they?

[Silver Moon]

I'm a third level cleric in my game...I've probably done close to 300 healing...and I've cast exactly 4 non-healing spells

Been there, done that. In my first gaming group they required me to start as a cleric, and told me that Cure Light Wounds was the ONLY 1st level spell. After I got my first PHB I questioned why there were 11 more spells listed, and was told "To make it appear that they can do more than heal, that's just a myth." That prompted me to start playing other classes instead.

A year later I brought a mid-level cleric into another campaign as one of two clerics in the party. All spellcasters handed the DM their spell lists - and the DM then stopped the game as I had taken 4 cures and 1 non-healing spell for my 5 1st level spells, instead of all cures as the other player had properly done. A very lengthy argument followed, with the entire group ganging up against me. Shortly thereafter I started my own group instead.

 

[Li Shenron]

No, no, no. Clerics _suck_ because they can heal, and thus people expect you to be the party medic.

Hong, do you play in a campaign with many combats per day (more than 4-5 usually)? I am playing a Cleric in adventures that have always an investigation/exploration part every day, and usually not more than that amount of battles per PC's day.

My main role IS the healer, especially since we get very little treasures and there are almost no magic shops around, so no CLW wands yet; so everybody expect me to be the one to heal (druid likes combat spells). Neverthless, I always get to use other spells, and my other special abilities and feats, and still I always fight (sometimes melee, sometimes ranged). I am amazed on how my PC misses so few possibilities (actually, his very bad side is only skills, he has Int 6), compared to what the others in the party miss:

Ran/Ftr = obviously misses spells, just fights
Dru = misses ranged combat
Sor = misses melee combat
Cle = misses nothing

As for the Sorcerer, she doesn't have a very well planned spells selection, but with 1 attack cantrip (Ray of Frost, albeit very weak) and her crossbow she is always doing something in combat. And outside combat, she has chances that none of us have, and is the leader, diplomat and sage of the party.

Well, on the other hand, if you play a game with only fights, where only hitting and healing is required, then just play all fighters and carry around a cask of healing potion. Or start at level 7

 

[hong]

Hong, do you play in a campaign with many combats per day (more than 4-5 usually)? I am playing a Cleric in adventures that have always an investigation/exploration part every day,

I have a premonition... it's coming... yes! When you hit about 9th-10th level or so, your DM will start whinging about how divination in D&D is b0rken.

especially since we get very little treasures and there are almost no magic shops around,

Can I be a spellcaster? I want to be a spellcaster. No sense getting shafted.

Neverthless, I always get to use other spells, and my other special abilities and feats, and still I always fight (sometimes melee, sometimes ranged).

You are not 2nd level, dopey. Read the original post.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

Low level casters do suck because low level offensive magic sucks.

Touch/close attacks are for the desperate and magic missile bites until 3rd level+. I see a lot of charm person and sleep, too much. There should be more damaging rays with elemental damage and low level area effect spells.

Spells per day do need boosting but scribe scroll currently fills this hole.

Clerics carry a healers burden but their indirect spells and combat skill make them ever useful, pity for the wizard though.

Basically low level wizards over do the humble aprentice and high level wizards over do the mighty archmage.

 

[Quinn]

So, what do you do with your low level spellcasters, to keep them in the game, and keep them interested. One of the best ways to lose players, in my experience, is to make them useless. Because if they're useless, they're not having any fun, and if they're not having any fun, they're missing the point in playing a game.

I let them play their characters the way they like to play them. If that means they have to rest more often to regain spells, so be it. I think if I were one of the spellcaster players, I'd tell the others to mind their own character sheets and quit trying to micro-manage the group.

 

[kengar]

Just to answer those who keep responding w/ "use a crossbow," the Illusionist is a Gnome with a 6 STR. I don't think he could carry around a crossbow very well. He needs all the speed he's got.

Besides, like I said in the original post (but maybe not clearly enough): We're all in melee combat before a round or two goes by. he'll either catch us in a Color Spray, or he's just as likely to hit the party members as he is a monster when firing into a melee.

If he's hitting party members with his Color Spray, your problem isn't the efficacy of low-level spellcasters, but the fact that the gnome is being careless. It sounds like your party needs to work on its tactics a little. Instead of the "melee boys" just charging in as soon as they can, have them hold their action until after the gnome blasts the baddies with the area spell, then they can bat cleanup on the dazed and blinded. BELIEVE me, they will be happy they had learned this strategy once the gnome starts casting Fireball!

 

[Li Shenron]

I have a premonition... it's coming... yes! When you hit about 9th-10th level or so, your DM will start whinging about how divination in D&D is b0rken.

We may be likely dead before that.

Originally posted by hong You are not 2nd level, dopey. Read the original post.

In fact I am 3rd. Since last session. So?

 

[Henry]

KrunchyFrogg:

Believe me, the lack of effectiveness is all in preconceived notion. Having played several Wizards and Clerics in 3E by now, I can honestly say that it's in the presentation.

First of all, a group that thinks ONLY in terms of hitting and healing is missing out on tactics far too effective to mention. The lowly spell protection from elements can protect a character from scores of points of elemental damage. Facing a wyrmling Black Dragon? a small fire elemental? An enemy wizard with penchant for shocking grasp or burning hands? All of these are useful. Even simple travel from the wilderness can be aided by this one spell.

Need to slay an orc before he threatens the fighter's flank? Inflict light wounds is a TOUCH attack that can kill the average orc dead in one shot.

Clerics can do more to undead than turn them. With magic stone, they can blow them apart. Heck, even the cure light wounds so lamented, can SLAP DOWN that pesky zombie or ghoul that threatens the party with certain death, if all your turns are used.

I've helped more party members with Doom, Bless, and Magic Weapon than I can count. I can personally count on one hand the number of times the party was rescued from near disaster with a well-placed magic weapon or bless spell.

ANY PARTY THAT TELLS ITS CLERICS TO "SAVE THEIR SPELLS" IS DOING IT THE HARD WAY.

Arcane casters are no less effective. Magic missle is a great spell - at 5th level and higher. But why on earth would a caster waste it at 1st or 2nd? Color Spray (which you mentioned), sleep, shocking grasp (the wizard's inflict light wounds), and MAGE armor (yes, mage armor) can be a major boon to beleaguered parties. Every monk in our parties has a good relationship with the arcane casters - because mage armor is gold to a low-level monk.

Must EVERYTHING be taken down with direct damage? How about ensuring the hit never happened? Outlasting the enemy if you can't deal enough damage to take them out quickly? Then the focus changes. If a DM of a group does not offer any other varieties of challenges than direct melee combat, then indeed the party is going to force itself into a mold that works best to take it down, and they will stick with the same tactics again and again because they do not wish to experiment with different ones, to find something more effective.

 

[Li Shenron]

Low level casters do suck because low level offensive magic sucks.

If all your spellcasting PCs do in your game is casting damaging spells, you are right: at low-level they suck; not always but most of the time. Better use a sling or crossbow than Ray of Frost.

That is true, if you think that all your Wizard can do is cast a Magic Missile: but fortunately the spell list is very long... A useful combat spell is not necessarily damaging, and there is a lot to do outside battles, where someone might complain that a Fighter instead has absolutely nothing to do.

Originally posted by FreeTheSlaves Touch/close attacks are for the desperate...[/B]

Not necessarily. It depends on the PC and the monster, but mostly on the PC.

 

[WayneLigon]

A light crossbow is 6lbs. 20 bolts is 2lbs. A gnome with 6 str can carry 15 lbs without penalty.

So, the answer is still 'have him use a crossbow'

Have the cleric fight with the rest. That's part of his strength, as the second best fighter.