Low Level spellcasters -- what use are they?

[Rel]

I don't think there is much point in even addressing this question toward the Cleric. Clerics do just fine in melee combat. Sure they don't have quite as much BAB and their Str might not be as high, but they should be wearing good armor and can easily wield a decent weapon (Heavy Mace). And so what if he has fewer hit points, he can heal himself any time he wants.

Druids also shouldn't have too many problems here. Their animal companions can help them out and, even though their weaponry is restricted, they've still got some decent options (Longspear springs to mind).

Sorcerers and Wizards are the ones that need to think more about what they are going to do when they run out of spells. First of all, I agree with those who say, "Delay until the Wizard casts Color Spray or Sleep, then jump in the battle." But there are lots of other cool spells they can use at low levels.

To address the specific situation of the Illusionist, Minor Image should be a spell that he casts in almost every combat (either by using Scrolls or preparing it multiple times). He can shape the battlefield heavily in favor of the party by using such spells. He can make opaque illusionary walls that enemy archers can't shoot through. He can make it appear as though a pool of lava or quicksand has been conjured near the party fighter so that the enemy melee types have to go around it to close the distance. There are many ways in which such spells can change the way a battle is fought to the benefit of the whole party.

As for what happens when he runs out of spells, he can fire a crossbow or use a sling. Will he hit much? Certainly less than a fighter would. But it is likely that the enemy will devote some resources to trying to counter his missile attacks and that is to the betterment of the party too.

But the main point to remember is this: If the party finds that after a couple of fights that the Cleric and Wizard are low on spells, they press on at their peril. Magic is the BIG EQUALIZER for the adventuring party. Most enemies you encounter will have the ability to melee but not all will have magical capabilities. Having your own magic as a means of countering what the enemy can do or making life difficult for their grunts (even if is the result of buffing your own party members) is likely going to be the difference between success and failure.

So ultimately the fighter types need to be more willing to take frequent breaks and thank their lucky stars that they've got such magical firepower on their side.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

Originally posted by Li Shenron

If all your spellcasting PCs do in your game is casting damaging spells, you are right

Low level wizards specifically.

The problem seems to me is that wizards do have limited blast em options at 1st compared to 3rd or 5th+. Why can't wizards have some decent ranged shooter spells for 1st level? Spells that give ranged touch attacks for a couple+ rounds, not even big damage, say d6 sonic/acid/etc... I say a couple plus rounds because it doesn't use up their precious few slots. This damage would not threaten fighters or archers but a blasting wizard would feel useful.

(Even still a sleep spell would be of better use)

It seems okay for wizzies to be blasting later but not sooner. Evokers use enchantment or necromany until they get fireball/advanced magic missile because these spells are of greater value. It just sucks that a shoot em up wizard has to be out of character for low levels because it is not optimal.

You don't choose wizard for the cool crossbow proficiency.

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Originally posted by FreeTheSlaves Touch/close attacks are for the desperate...[/B]
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Not necessarily. It depends on the PC and the monster, but mostly on the PC.

This is true but what wizard prepares these spells on the off chance, probably only on scrolls and probably one copy. Even a hearty wizard won't get into close combat if they have a say in the matter I think.

 

[clark411]

I do not understand how it sucks to be "relegated" to healing... we could also say, following that tack, that fighters doing their jobs are "relegated to hitting things and causing damage." I simply fail to see the disconnect here between the value of a Fighter landing 2d6+6 damage with a greatsword and his cleric healing him 2d8+4 hitpoints... How is the former more fun than the latter on it's most base level? How is the latter considered less fun? Is it because clerics replace their utility spells for raw healing? Is it the final body count ultimately- bragging rights?

I don't see healing being any less good, beyond people saying "well there goes Aid." This is said from a purely pessimistic tack- the statement is not being finished; it should be "Well there goes Aid in exchange for 1d8+5 healing." or perhaps "Well there goes Aid in exchange for 1d8+5 healing, which when used, saved the fighter, who was then able to survive one more round to fell the beast."

I'm more than willing to say that a group that thinks of a cleric as little more than a healer is undervaluing and undercutting the abilites s/he has to offer them, as much as they would if they demanded the party wizard do nothing but cast magic missiles and melfs.

 

[Olive]

A light crossbow is 6lbs. 20 bolts is 2lbs. A gnome with 6 str can carry 15 lbs without penalty. What else does he need besides the crossbow? Clothes only weight 2lbs if you pick wear a monks outfit. A dagger only weighs 1lb. A backpack weighs 2lbs. Assuming that your food is kept on your mount, or carried by another party member, that leaves 3lbs to spare. Not much, but worth it for combat effectiveness.

he's gonna carry a 2lb backpack? it's now use unless you've got enough strenght to actually put something IN IT.

 

[dpdx]

I'm playing my first Cleric in the PbP threads and I love it. I've healed, Shield of Faithed for melee and even landed a blow so far, and we've only had one combat! I can't imagine how fun it will be to reach second level. More Spells, better Turning and Greater Turning attempts, and an actual Base Attack Bonus. I don't think my PC is useless at all.

But if I had other players and the DM making me take healing spells (when I could just as easily Spontaneously Cast them), I'd probably not be in that game anymore, either. Let them get another lackey...

 

[Sanackranib]

low level casters

Two words: Scribe Scroll.

The spellcasters should be loaded down with scrolls of all their favorites. Whether they make them or buy them is moot. Scrolls extend the usefulness of spellcasters to new and greater heights at least until the next big advancement in spell-storing, wands.


Not much else to say really. It requires expenditure of cash and or xp, but that's a small price to pay for most groups to get greater functionality out of their casters.

scribe scroll is HUGE! at low levels.
for the illusionist sleep and charm are your best friends
for the cleric don't heal them up so fast and the party will WANT to rest more. also for the money a cure lt. wand is the best buy you can get. split the cost among the whole party and its like 150 gp each. then the priest can cast what ever he wants.

 

[Hammerhead]

One way to be an annoying bum is to be a cleric. Put high stats in Strength and Constitution. Use your spells to buff yourself and hurt bad guys only-Shield of Faith, Bull's Strength, Command, Endurance, Divine Favor, etc. Call yourself a fighter.

Besides, from my experience as a sorcerer, I was nearly always able to use my move action to get to the right spot to Color Spray without hitting my own party, except once. You can also endeavor to always win iniative.

 

[Stalker0]

May I also suggest daze as a good cantrip for those low level games. My players have used that to damn good effect. Daze one of the orcs, next round he's surrouned by 2 fighters and a cleric.

 

[Lazybones]

Rel beat me to it, but for a low-level caster, and especially an illusionist, the silent image has a million and one uses. Create an illusory cloud of smoke around the head of an enemy spellcaster, or a swarm of flapping bats. As Rel said, illusory pits and/or walls can shape the battlefield to your favor.

I don't think I've ever had a 1st level arcane caster who took magic missile. There are far too many other effective spells that don't do damage but can turn the tide of an encounter if properly used.

 

[Dinkeldog]

Administrative: Just a reminder, we do not call one another names here, even if they're the same name as cute Disney dwarves.

Back to the topic: First level scrolls cost 12.5 gp. I would recommend getting the entire party on board with the thought that spells in books for wizards and spells on scrolls for wizards and clerics are benefiting the entire group. Then try to get a couple Magic Weapon scrolls for the cleric (still at the reduced price with the wizard's help), a couple sleep or color spray or the like spells for the illusionist, and a wand of cure light wounds. someone else said this, but I'll reiterate, that wand is a bargain.

Also, one of the fighter types should act as a beast of burden for the 6 Str illusionist's bedroll/food/etc. Teamwork is the key here. The fighter can't take out 8 orcs at 120 feet, even only a couple times a day.