Low magic and inherent armor class dodge bonuses

[kenjib]

I wanted to run a campaign where magic items are very, very, rare, and when found don't even always gain enhancement bonuses to accompany their special powers. Basically, an enhancement bonus isn't any more common than other types of powers like magic resistance, fortification, damage reduction, or the like. Likewise with magic weapons.

The problem here is that you end up with 20th level fighters running around with a 20 armor class while fully armored (full plate and large shield), which would not really work very well since he also has a +20 BaB and would thus always hit someone of similar caliber.

So, with that premise, is there anything wrong with giving characters a natural dodge bonus to their armor class as they increase in level? I was thinking that all PCs and NPCs get half of their raw BaB (not counting bonuses from strength, feats, abilities, and the like) as an armor class bonus to compensate for the resulting AC deficiency of such a magic item poor world.

Thus a first level fighter with full plate and large shield has a 20 armor class. At 10th level the fighter has a 25 armor class. At 20th level he has a 30 armor class.

Compare this to the baseline NPC listed in the PHB who has a 34 armor class by the time he is level 20. The extra 4 for the NPC is cancelled out by the fact that there are fewer enhancement bonuses on swords and stat boosting items.

A nice side effect of this is that a high level fighter still has a nice armor class when unarmored, which makes lots of sense to me as it reflects his superior defensive skill, although I'm aware that increased hit points represent this as well.

Classes with slower BaB progressions also end up with a slower rate of AC increase, which makes sense to me. A rogue in leather with high dex would have around a 15 AC at 1st level, 19 at 10th, and 24 at 20th -- these numbers assuming he continually boosts his dexterity as he levels. A wizard without armor would go from 10 to only 15 at 20th level, thus would need to rely heavily on mage armor and shield spells and also make an investment in dexterity during character creation.

Anyway, does this seem like it would work out smoothly or is there too much disparity between classes? Should everyone just increase according to half their level instead of basing it on BaB or is it okay for there to be such a wide difference between classes?

 

[uv23]

I don't see a problem with one 20th level character always being able to hit another 20th level character. Keep in mind that hitpoints do not always represent damage, especially at higher levels. At that skill level, it would be a test of the greater warrior and his endurance.

 

[willpax]

In my own low-level campaign, I've used the class defense bonus from Wheel of Time, allowing it to stack with armor for all classes . So far, it hasn't produced any problems, but we're spending some extra time around third level so I can't comment on its fairness at higher levels.

 

[kenjib]

uv23:

I see your point, but it's not just that. Monsters still have both high AC and BaB at that level, so they will always hit the fighter, but the fighter will not always hit the monster, thus high level encounters are no longer properly designed for the ability of the characters. Do you think this is a problem?

Why not just use a system like this to keep characters at a similar power level AC-wise as they increase in level relative to standard D&D wealth levels, but reduce their reliance on magic items to fit the mood of campaign I'm looking for? Do you think this system roughly models the expected power levels for characters as they level vis-a-vis the CR system and the way monsters are designed?

 

[Jeph]

Try this:

Characters have reduced HP. They have Base HP equal to their Con score, and some bonus HP. The following table translates the HD into Bonus HP:

LV D04 D06 D08 D10 D12
01 +00 +00 +00 +01 +02
02 +00 +01 +01 +02 +03
03 +01 +01 +02 +03 +04
04 +01 +02 +03 +04 +05
05 +01 +02 +03 +05 +07
06 +01 +03 +04 +06 +08
07 +02 +03 +05 +07 +09
08 +02 +04 +06 +08 +10
09 +02 +04 +06 +09 +11
10 +02 +05 +07 +10 +13
11 +03 +05 +08 +11 +14
12 +03 +06 +09 +12 +15
13 +03 +06 +09 +13 +16
14 +03 +07 +10 +14 +17
15 +04 +07 +11 +15 +19
16 +04 +08 +12 +16 +20
17 +04 +08 +12 +17 +21
18 +04 +09 +13 +18 +22
19 +05 +09 +14 +19 +23
20 +05 +10 +15 +20 +25

So, a Barbarian 20 with Con 22 would have 47 HP. A Wiz 20 with Con 13 would have 18 HP. A Ftr 20 with Con 8 would have 28 HP. and so on. With

After you've figured this, adjust for creature size: Fine x1/16, Diminuative x1/8, Tiny x1/4, Smal x1/2, Medium x1, Large x2, Huge x4, Gargantuan x8, Collasal x16. This makes for some paper characters in an iron and steel world.

Now, we have Base Defensive Bonus. Characters have a BDB equal to their Base Attack Bonus plus their Base Reflex Bonus. Their Defense is their BDB + 10 plus Dexterity Modifier plus Deflection Bonus plus Dodge Bonus plus Insight Bonus plus Luck bonus plus size mod. Notice that did NOT include Armor or Natural Armor.

Then, characters have Protection. Their Protection is equal to their DR + Armor Bonus + Natural Armor Bonus. Subtract Protection from all damage you take.

Then comes the factor that limits armor: Max Base Defenxive Bonus. This number is double the Max Dex Bonus for the armor.

Overall, we have:

a) characters get hit less,
b) when they do they take less damage, and
c) when they do take damage it hurts MUCH more.


An option for toning down spellcasters: For healing, instead of just whisking away damage, it converts Normal damage into Subdual damage. for damageing spells, decrease the die type 1 step. Alternatively, you could use the 'odd = 1' rule: any die that comes up an odd number is counted as a 1 for damageing and healing spells.


this might be your solution, might be way to complicated. Whatever.

EDIT: corrected Defense

 

[kenjib]

Hehe - I tried Grim N' Gritty before. It's a nice system but I personally don't like the feel of how the damage reduction interracts with the low damage of weapons. Damage reduction works better with weapons that do more damage, like firearms, or if it worked on percentages, but that's too much number crunching. Thanks for the suggestion though! It's a good system.

 

[Jeph]

As you can see, I expanded Grim Grit a bit . . . higher defense, eliminated the defenseive d20 roll (an unnesaccary mechanic, IMHO), and provided HP progressions for the d4 and d12. Yeah it is a nice system, but teh DR really doesn't interact well with the low damage . . . so IMC, i changed it. Yes, I actually increased the damage of the weapons, after I had decreased HP. I increased the dice of damage a step (d4 to d6, d6 to d8, . . . ) for all weapons, and gave Compound Bows 1 point of Penetration.

It really is a shame that Sleeping Imperium isn't up anymore. 'twas a great site.

 

[kenjib]

Yeah, increasing the damage die would definitely help. Do you know what happened to the site?

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

The Slow Blade

Fading Suns D20 and Nyambe give all their characters optional dodge bonuses tied to level. They are pretty low, but it gives characters some much needed high level protection in a magic light combat heavy worlds. I thought it worked.

Fading Suns also had a fantastic armor system. Low level skilled damage went through where heavy fire got heavily reduced. Really gave the slow blade a lot of merit. Worked exaclty as I imagined shields from Dune would.

Man I wish WOTC had published that RPG.

Duncan Idaho, where are you now?

7th seas introduced an armor bonus feat tree, but I don't think that's exactly what your looking for.

 

[Silverthrone]

Seren Feats

These are feats used in my own low magic campaign to address the issue of armor class in a low magic campaign.