D&D 5E Lvl 14 rogue vs. (lvl 14) red dragon

[RangerWickett]

A friend made up a 14th level halfling rogue (76 hp, AC 17, +7 to-hit) to run in The Mud Sorcerer's Tomb. As a test, I had him fight a red dragon, which is listed as a level 14 monster (174 hp, AC 15, +7 to-hit). His only magic item was +1 mithril chain.

He sneaks up. Easily beats the dragon's Wisdom check to notice him.

He attacks with a sling, and between halfling luck and ace in the hole is guaranteed to hit. Sneak attack ends up at, I think, 1d6+3+2x(6d6+15). He does something like 74 damage.

Roll initiative. The rogue uses his skill dice to add 1d10, and easily beats the dragon.

He makes a normal sling attack, then runs to cover. Hits for another 40-ish damage. (114 dmg vs. 174 hp)

The dragon flies after the halfling, claw/claw/bites. Only hits with the bite, doing 33 damage. (33 dmg vs. 76 hp)

The halfling provokes an opportunity attack to run, and gets to add his skill die to his AC. The dragon misses. The halfling slings the dragon again and manages to get into a narrow space, where the dragon will have to squeeze if it wants to attack him. The sling does another 40-ish damage, and the dragon is nearly dead.

The dragon breathes fire into the narrow space where the halfling is trying to hide, but hey, evasion. Halfling takes no damage.

The halfling walks up with a short sword and stabs the dragon to death.


That was pathetic.

 

[the Jester]

Hmm, doesn't sound like a very smart dragon.

That said, thanks for the report- I've not gotten above 3rd level with any 5e stuff yet. The current packet, we've got four 1st level pcs and one 2nd level at this point.

 

[A'koss]

Kinda funny actually...

Yeah, clearly there's still a lot of work to be done. I will note though you don't double the the MDB, just the MDD you roll. So, the dragon would have another 15hps for what little that's worth.

 

[RangerWickett]

Basically we decided to recreate The Hobbit, except with Bilbo as a high level character. So the dragon's stuck indoors, and Bilbo just walks out 30 seconds later to invite the dwarves into their new kingdom.

 

[Sunseeker]

Yeah, that dragon needs some serious output improvment. I'm not entirely clear if monster levels are CR-like in DDN, but if they are that should have been a challenge for a whole party. We shouldn't need to throw a dozen dragons at a party just to make them sweat.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Was going to say something about a lack of solos, but... WotC obviously has a formula for calculating monster stats, but they need to base these formulas around expected PC stats. Which they should post, Enemies & Allies or NPC Codex-style. (This wasn't needed in 4e because, while PC math was more variable than monster math, it was still fairly strictly under control.) Since PC stats change every playtest module, I'm not expecting balanced monsters anytime soon.

Bonded accuracy keeps attack bonuses and AC scores down and generally static, but you still get stat boosts, right? A high-level rogue's AC will therefore increase, unlike anyone else's. WotC needs to either "fix" that somehow. (I don't know if rogues having a high AC is a bad thing, but it looks like Dex-AC class are going to be OP compared to others as they gain levels.)

I'm thinking the lack of a skill system hurts too. If Perception were a skill, at least a few more monsters would have it (including solo-types).

As it was, the dragon should have pushed something heavy over the hole and just trapped the rogue. But that doesn't change the fact that the dragon is quivering in fear from an equal-leveled rogue. Also, a dragon trapping a rogue when there's another three or four PCs beating on it (which is what would usually happen, rather than this duel) would still be killed shockingly quickly.

 

[A'koss]

One of goals of this edition was to speed up fights... well... there ya go.

But seriously, my concern is if they are looking to have fewer rounds / battle things like initiative and surprise weigh that much more in the outcome. They need to deal with damage/hp. Help stretch out those fights a little, especially against the solo bosses. Otherwise you're going to need to pad out those fights with minions to help sponge up some of that output.

 

[Sadrik]

Speed up combats, yes but high level needs to feel different. I dont think that low level number of hits to kill should equate high level number of hits to kill. damage should increase slower than HP as you level up. Currently it is not correct.

 

[Tuft]

That was pathetic.

Actually, that sound rather exciting whan you describe it.

I did the same kind of simulation in 4E back when my group played it - my not very damage-optimized bard versus a blue dragon solo of the same mid-epic level (from MM1). No sneaking and hiding, just a stand-up trading of attacks. Think it took me 100 rounds(*) or so to whittle away the dragon's HP using my puny at-will, but the dragon had no chance to penetrate the Demigod Epic Path regeneration my bard had....

(*) stand-in for "a ridiculous amount"

(Sorry, don't have the actual numbers any more, going by memory, thus the fuzzyness with the details.)

 

[ForeverSlayer]

And this is supposed to be the one game that rules them all?