Macguffin quest without a macguffin, how would you respond?

[Mouseferatu]

I just thought of a way that it could be kinda cool.

What if the PCs wandered far and wide, visiting ancient places far from civilization, gaining powers and goodies, but not finding the MacGuffin. Crestfallen, they return to civilization... only to find the land in ruins, the Ancient Evil already on the wane, and the real trouble just beginning -- as all remaining men have turned on each other to scavenge the few remaining resources.

Now the PCs must decide who to save, where to rebuild, and how to rule.

It would still bug me, having no hand in whatsoever in the fall of Ancient Evil. I'd be fine with it turning out just to be a turning point in the campaign, rather than the final victory, but I'd not want to be uninvolved.

 

[Nifft]

It would still bug me, having no hand in whatsoever in the fall of Ancient Evil. I'd be fine with it turning out just to be a turning point in the campaign, rather than the final victory, but I'd not want to be uninvolved.

Yeah, same here. It would be merely "kinda cool". :\

That kind of plot twist would at least not make me angry about the whole thing... though if each wild goose chase ended in a cool magic item for the party, that would also do quite a lot to ameliorate my ire.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Stalker0]

What you need is to tell the players at the same time:

1) The evil was not stopped by a Macguffin
2) Now, only they are left to stop it.

Basically, put the heroic effort on their shoulders.

The ancient one says, "For thousands of years the dark ones have flourished, only to recede into the night once more. The cycle has continued without end and the land has suffered eternally. The Legend of Koranish was meant to give hope to the people, but I tell you thus, it is a myth. The evil will continue...and nothing can stop it.

Except....I have heard stories and tales of heroes past, with power beyond imagination. Yet I see here now brave heroes, and you possess a conviction and strengths beyond all of the heroes past. The Koranish cannot save us, but the jounrney for it has made you strong. If there is any, past or present that can save us I believe you can. The hopes of the people, the hopes of the world rest on your shoulders.

Please, grant this old one his final wish. Do the impossible. DRIVE the dark ones back into the NIGHT, this time....FOREVER!!

 

[Roadkill101]

Heh, I like it. But I like those kind of twists of fate (or whatever). So long as I had fun while adventuring, chasing after the phantom McGuffin, then it's a good game. I like Nifft's twist about coming home and having to restore order because YOAE has done been and gone.
What was this series of books?

 

[Aeric]

What you need is to tell the players at the same time:

1) The evil was not stopped by a Macguffin
2) Now, only they are left to stop it.

Basically, put the heroic effort on their shoulders.

The ancient one says, "For thousands of years the dark ones have flourished, only to recede into the night once more. The cycle has continued without end and the land has suffered eternally. The Legend of Koranish was meant to give hope to the people, but I tell you thus, it is a myth. The evil will continue...and nothing can stop it.

Except....I have heard stories and tales of heroes past, with power beyond imagination. Yet I see here now brave heroes, and you possess a conviction and strengths beyond all of the heroes past. The Koranish cannot save us, but the jounrney for it has made you strong. If there is any, past or present that can save us I believe you can. The hopes of the people, the hopes of the world rest on your shoulders.

Please, grant this old one his final wish. Do the impossible. DRIVE the dark ones back into the NIGHT, this time....FOREVER!!

I support this idea wholeheartedly.

 

[Merkuri]

I'm with Stalker0 and Aeric. I would love a campaign where you spend 90% of it looking for an item that doesn't exist if you make the process a learning experience and the PCs still have a chance to fight the big bad evil. That would be quite a moment to learn that the item you're looking for is gone or never existed, but that in the process of looking for it you have become strong enough to do the job you needed it for. Or better yet, that you've been strong enough to do it all along.

... It just struck me what this whole idea reminds me of. The Wizard of Oz! That's a perfect example of characters who do not find what they are looking for, but discover that the journey is its own reward. That would be great to model a campaign around.

 

[Tonguez]

I just thought of a way that it could be kinda cool.

What if the PCs wandered far and wide, visiting ancient places far from civilization, gaining powers and goodies, but not finding the MacGuffin. Crestfallen, they return to civilization... only to find the land in ruins, the Ancient Evil already on the wane, and the real trouble just beginning -- as all remaining men have turned on each other to scavenge the few remaining resources.

Now the PCs must decide who to save, where to rebuild, and how to rule.

Hell, you could do it in Eberron, with the setting almost unchanged. "Last War" becomes "Last Rise of the Dark", and go from there.

Cheers, -- N

IMC the uber plot involves five ancient artifacts which when brought together will unleashe the Destroyer.
Now the PCs did not know this, and were involved in a different adventure when they recovered one of the artifact (acidentally). The PCs still weren't involved in the uber plot but they had become targets of a Cult of Zealots of a Bloodthirsty War god whom the PCs beleive were simply savage expansionist.

In fact the War god served the Destroyer. The PCs however avoided the Zealots and headed south on a voyage of exploration trying to find a new home (their homeland was sinking) on the new land they recovered another artifact. Anyway they now know about the Destroyer and are heading back to destroy the Bloodthirsty god of the Cult because the Cult has another one of the artifacts etc etc

Anyway the point is when they started adventuring the PCs weren't part of the uberplot (it was background) but the adventures they had did have some overlap. Only now are they part of the uberplot

It could be that in your case the YOAE does rise and fall with the PCs only aware of its actions due to overlap with there own adventure. At which point the PCs will need to become part of the legend and lead their people to the new home they discovere and explored far to the south and the game will become management of a new colony whilst defending it from the machinations of the YOAE ....

 

[The_Universe]

What you need is to tell the players at the same time:

1) The evil was not stopped by a Macguffin
2) Now, only they are left to stop it.

Basically, put the heroic effort on their shoulders.

The ancient one says, "For thousands of years the dark ones have flourished, only to recede into the night once more. The cycle has continued without end and the land has suffered eternally. The Legend of Koranish was meant to give hope to the people, but I tell you thus, it is a myth. The evil will continue...and nothing can stop it.

Except....I have heard stories and tales of heroes past, with power beyond imagination. Yet I see here now brave heroes, and you possess a conviction and strengths beyond all of the heroes past. The Koranish cannot save us, but the jounrney for it has made you strong. If there is any, past or present that can save us I believe you can. The hopes of the people, the hopes of the world rest on your shoulders.

Please, grant this old one his final wish. Do the impossible. DRIVE the dark ones back into the NIGHT, this time....FOREVER!!

Well said. If the characters can't change anything, what's the point of playing? If they can't really affect the game, write a novel instead.

 

[Rothe]

I really like the idea of no mcguffin. It teaches players not to make metagame assumptions. People and legends can be wrong in a fantasy world just like in our world. Just because there is a legend of a mcguffin doesn't mean there is one. Sure people want to believe it exists to give them hope but that doesn't mean it is there.

I generally really don't care for literally save the world based campaigns as a player or GM, what happens of they fail or don't care? I don't mind players thinking it will be the end of the world if they don't do soemthing, but it won't in acutality. Or an ultra powerful extradimensional being with plans to destroy the world, thing is even if the plans succeed the actual destruction won't happen for a 10,000 years, but to said ultra powerful being that is 500,000,000 years old, that is tomorrow.

Nevertheless, if you are going to run a save the world campaign, as others have suggested I'd at least give the players some ways to influnece things. Sure maybe the evil will just go away but the players can, e.g., (1) make it permanent, (2) hasten it going away, (3) extend how long it stays dormant and/or (4) minimize the damage.

The mcguffin search may not unveil a mcguffin but how to make one, peoples best efforts at a solution before the evil arises again. Here is a chance for craft magic items to shine. One with a huge xp cost, which the PCs may get from a quest, sharing their xp with the crafter, etc.

In may also be a Zen like thing, you are the mcguffin, your trials and tribulations have given you expereince and maybe a set of special resistances to the evil being, that allow you a chance to combat it where others fail.

Maybe the mcguffin is a trick, a social skill based solution. Instead of a thing, it is a way of confronting the being. Maybe a trick or riddle to reveal its "True Name" and banish it forever.

If the players need a huge end all battle, I'm sure there would be plenty of followers/army of the evil one to throw in for the final hack fest.

 

[Evilhalfling]

If the players need a huge end all battle, I'm sure there would be plenty of followers/army of the evil one to throw in for the final hack fest.

Everyone needs a huge end all battle.
to quote Gengis Cohen "The victory is not real unless its over a mountain of skulls "