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Mage School Questions

Shayuri

First Post
I'm not sure if this should go here or in House Rules, but I'll give it a whirl here on the off chance there's some rule I missed. :)

I have a rather long-term plan in mind for my character to create a stronghold (via the Guide) and turn it into a sort of mage school, modeled somewhat loosely along the lines of a university.

Do any of y'all have suggestions for:

1) What a reasonable tuition is to charge aspiring students? Bearing in mind that a year is 2 terms (it's not broken down past that), and each year is designed to advance a student 1 level. My goal is to make the first year relatively affordable to teach the basic wizarding arts, and then offer continuing education for wizards who wish to keep access to the university perks, and/or continue gaining levels with relatively little risk of summary death through adventuring.

2) What would be a reasonable salary for faculty? My first instinct was to check the spellcasting costs, but I realized that not only did that not work hugely well for magic classes, but many of the classes would not BE magic classes. Skills like Knowledge of Arcana and Planes and such. Spellcraft. Alchemy. All kinds of basic wizardly knowledge that had nothing to do with spellcasting. I figured that access to the huge (and very expensive) library and university labs and stores would help attract mages even if the wages weren't stellar...but the idea is to get and keep quality professors. And that takes money. Any suggestions as to how much? (Note - I figure the minimum level for faculty would be level 5...and even that would be sort of junior-grade)

3) I assumed from the start that students would be responsible for many of their own materials (spellbooks and the like), though they'd be available for sale at the university, or through a nearby town, perhaps. I've compiled a small list of items that a student is required to have, but that aren't provided for free by the university. I'd like to see what others think too though. I may be missing things. :)

The university provides things like material components, glassware, and similar sundries that it's not reasonable to expect a student to buy in advance.

4) Realizing that tutition past the first year will likely be pretty high, I thought it might be reasonable to provide a credit system whereby a 2nd year or older student could scribe scrolls and apply half their value as a credit towards their tuition. The value is halved because the university would be providing the monetary cost of the scroll's creation. Up to 50% of tuition for a term can be thus earned. Does this seem reasonable? I realize that in strict game-mechanics terms that a scroll-scribing student should finish behind, since the exp cost would put him behind his fellows...which is one potential pitfall I percieve. Any ideas for how that could be handled? In my simplified model, the students simply gained a level at the end of each year...exp wasn't tracked for them. But I have to wonder if that's fair if I allow them to make scrolls. Thoughts?

5) Similarly, when I was trying to think of ways to encourage the faculty to make items, the GM suggested a rather intriguing idea. That there be a sort of central repository of magic items at the university. A faculty member can create a magic item to obtain a credit equal to the item's value (the creation of this item is funded by the university). The item is then added to the central store. A faculty member who has a creation credit can go to the store and "check out" an item of equal or lesser value than his credit. The credit is restored when the item is returned in operable condition. Items with charges only return credit based on the number of charges left in the item when returned, compared to how many were there when it was checked out.

This would allow a faculty member to create a single item, and gain access to a large number of items...even if it's only one at a time. I imagine there would be a cap on the amount of credit that any one person can have, to make sure that some doofus doesn't trade a single Staff of Power for the entire contents of the store. :) The items in the store are considered property of the university, held in trust by those who borrow them. If someone takes an item and never returns it, their credit is considered to have "bought" the item. Same thing if someone uses all the charges in a given item.

Thoughts on this? Is it fair? Would it work? The idea is to not only assist faculty with specific magic needs, but also to develop a large inventory of magic for use with defense and various utility needs.

6) Finally, another thing about faculty was thoughts of tossing around requirements for a certain amount of mafical research or spell research. This is particularly valid for the administrative faculty (the deans and so on) who don't have classes. Clearly the research would be funded primarily through the university, so there would be considerable incentive for wizards to do that. In return for the funding, the results of the research would be fully disclosed to the university, along with all materials and knowledge needed to replicate the research if needed...and a single scribed scroll of each new spell created (scribed at exp cost to the creator, but no gold cost). This seems reasonable to me, and a good approximation of the "publish or perish" system in place in most universities... Any ideas for what's a reasonable amount of mandated "publishing?" Assuming that teaching professors have an average of 5 classes per term, and that administrative faculty need to spend some time each week administrating and tending to the piles of paperwork on their desks...

Note that I have ideas for all these points, but I'm interested to see what others think before deciding once and for all.

Thank you all very much for your contribution to the construction of the Whitespire Academy of the Arcane Arts.
 

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Ok... First off, you're dividing the question into 2 parts needlessly.

1) How much do teachers make?
2) How much do we charge students?

2) isn't needed. You charge students enough to cover the operating costs.

Start with exactly what classes you will be offering, and what your class size is. Let's make nice round numbers (if you want to know where I got 'em, get a doctor with a flashlight). 10 classes, 10 students each class (about right for things involving dangerous substances). At a minimum, you need to charge 1/10 the teachers salary per student per class. If they take 5 classes, that means that quarter costs at least 1/2 the semiesterly pay of the Wiz.

Now, of course, you need to add to that. Assume that for every 10 faculty you need one administrator (reasonable), with a minimum of 3 (head of the school (Arch-Dean), Planner (the one who keeps stores of consumabules stocked, plans for the unexpected, etc), and Head Groundskeeper (at this level, includes janatorial (heh... Summon Monster I! Ok, you, badger. Get in that sewer and clean out the block! (heck, you might be able to make a campaign out of that...)), and security, as well as general maintainance. Or you can just 'farm out' that position to...

The Stronghold Builder's guide! That will tell you how many guards, groundskeepers, chefs, etc. you need. Take their salary, and divvy it up amongst the students. Remember to add 'dorm rooms' (barracks), etc.

Wear and tear might be at a premium, considering the 'targeting your first fireball' class... Add a fixed, reasonable percentage onto that.

Once you've got the wear and tear, administration, etc. done, set the profit margin you want, and/or the ability to grant scholorships to aspiring peasents. There's your operating budget requirements. Charge as necessary. Look for sponsers in research (I'm sure the local king would be willing to give you some cash for the ability to call up all the 1st level kids in the school... that'll slow down the invading army, 40 1st level magic missiles and a flurry of stuff from the teachers (we call this one 'Meteor Swarm'. I'll teach it next year in night classes)). Etc. etc.

Basic gist of it is don't set the tuition then find the costs. :)
 

Take a look at the Mage of the Arcane Order (Tome & Blood) and Guild Wizard of Waterdeep (magic of Faerun) PrCs... They each charge a 750-1000 gp initation fee, with 25-30 gp dues monthly. Magical supplies and living quarters can be had at reduced cost. Both employ spell pools. And some benefits include free spells, access to libraries and laboratories for research and item construction, bonus languages, bonus feats, and employment.

It'd be a good place to start.
 

What I want to know is, why does any adventurer in this world start at first level when a mere year of university training will raise him a level?
 

The Arcane Order and the Guild don't offer free training of skills, etc., do they? They allow access... Kind of like the ASME (american society of mechanical engineers). Some 'continuing education' type stuff, but otherwise, mostly a sophisticated 'club' of similarly interested people.

I wouldn't do one year=one level. I would think more like school... 4-8 years to reach first level, another 4 for second, nothing higher than third (you eventually need to get a decent job to learn more. Or freelance (see: adventurer))
 

Zirnike said:
The Arcane Order and the Guild don't offer free training of skills, etc., do they? They allow access... Kind of like the ASME (american society of mechanical engineers). Some 'continuing education' type stuff, but otherwise, mostly a sophisticated 'club' of similarly interested people.

That all depends on your DM... Both provide Wizard training, but I would run it more like the "training to gain a level" method suggested in the DMG. Once you have enough XP to gain a level, you go back to the guild, train with a tutor, do some research, and gain your level.
 

Glee!

Thanks to everyone for their replies so far! I do responses now.

Zimike - What you said was correct, I phrased it like I did because I was interested in the responses. In a "real" university, tuition is only one part of the school's total income (and often not even the biggest part), so the idea of matching tuition costs to expenses isn't necessarily true. However, given that this is a fantasy genre, and I can't (and don't want to) depend on phat grants, your suggestion is more or less in line with my plans. Non-faculty costs are easy enough for me to calculate. So, while I was interested in seeing some ideas for what a "fair" tuition was, the main thrust I'm looking for is ideas on what a fair salary for a professor of magic is. Thanks for your input though!

Oh, and the 1 yr / level thing was just an idea. Honestly, that's more a GM decision than mine...I just liked how a full 4 year course of study would turn out a comfortably middle-level wizard who's capable of doing some adventuring out in the wide world. In this campaign, low levels (ie 1-3) will have serious problems, cuz it's a high-threat game world. :)

Jack - Yes, I've referenced both of those sources, but ultimately, as Zimike mentioned later, the analogy breaks down quickly. The Academy of the Arcane Arts isn't a "guild," though it has a few similar roles. It's primary focus is on education though. Taking those who are able to learn wizardry, and teaching them to do that. A large upfront fee combined with a tiny continuing cost simply won't cover the needs of the school. For one, few students could meet that upfront fee...resulting in comparatively few attendees. Secondly, the costs of the school are continuing, and will require continuing income. Mage guilds tend not to have a huge amount of overhead...just upkeep for a guild house, mainly. They can get away with a pricing scheme like that. :)

Vaxalon - An excellent question, and one I have several answers for. One, this is (to my knowledge) the first institution of its kind in the campaign world. My character is from a land where education works like this, but that rejects magic utterly. So when she gets powerful enough to put this school together, she'll be combining the idea of a school of magic with the sort of institutionalized education format of her home nation...which hasn't really been done before. Generally wizards do the master/apprentice thing, which takes a LOT longer than structured, formalized educating. 1st level wizards leave their masters because they've been with the old coot for 10-15 years...after having spent 90% of that time doing annoying errands, and 10% of that time actually learning (some hyperbole here, but not as much as you might think ;))

And of course, not everyone is temperamentally cut out for a school's learning environment. I imagine there'll still be mages who get to 1st level and strike out on their own. *shrugs*

The specifics of how fast a university treatment allows wizard levels to proliferate is really, at this point, up in the air. I actually am thinking it'll probably wind up closer to 2 years per level, with 1 year granting an "apprentice" level of wizardry. A 4 year "bachelor's" equivelent would result in a 2nd level wizard. 8 year "master's" would be a 4rth level. Etc.

But again, that progression is at this point purely hypothetical.

Thanks again!

So any ideas on how to work out good salaries for good profs?

And comments/thoughts/reactions on the tuition and item incentive programs?
 

Well, if the wizard was just sitting down and making scrolls, etc., he'd be making... well, it's 1 day per 1000 gp of the item. And that's 500gp of profit a day, assuming they can sell everything. With overhead, annoyance of running your own business... 250/day?

Before you freak out... Making a magic item is a full day. Most profs would be doing 8 hour days, plus access to labs, etc. Maybe 100gp/day?
 

Hmm...which over a 300 day school year would come to roughly 30,000gp a year.

Probably in the right ballpark, but since profs get room and board, we can shave that a bit. Access to facilities; a bit more...

But the 30k/yr figure is a handy jumping off point...and roughly equivalent to casting 1 1st level spell per day (at 5th level of exp), which probably isn't too far off the mark...

Higher level classes and professors could concievably command greater wages too...yes...

Which justifies the higher tuitions of those classes.

This is good brain food. Thanks again for the input. :)
 

Hrm, I would say after the first year they would be Level 0 Wizards/Apprentice Wizards (DMG I think has the rules for them), then after the third year they would be a level 1 Wizard, and then after the 5th year a level 2 Wizard, and maybe 8th year a level 3 wizard-although that's just a thought.

Hollowfaust (Swords and Sorcerery) has some ideas about necromantic wizard schools as well.

Also, take a look at average NPC wealth table when considering tuition, how much would an aritocrat's parents have to fund their children even? I imagine they would have 2x or so what's on the table, and then monthly income.

Just my 2 cents
 

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