Magic Ammunition Costs

[pvandyck]

Is anyone else troubled by the cost of Magical Ammunition? By the book a +1 arrow is 47 gp (2350 gp / 50 arrows), and since if an arrow hits, it's destroyed, and when missing destroyed 50% of the time, I feel it's more of a one-use item.

It seems expensive to me for a bow fighter dude to have to pay this much money, when compared to a simple melee fighter. I mean, unless he's really good at negotiating with the group of players, he's not going to get rembursed for this, so most of this guy's share of the loot will go toward getting more ammo, just to be equivalent to the melee fighter's capabilities.

As a DM, I feel it's a balance issue. A bow fighter type seems disadvantaged in comparision to a melee fighter type. Unless it's supposed to be offset by the fact that the bow fighter type gets the advantage of NOT being in melee.

However, while I can see that not being in the thick of it is an advantage, it's not enough. I've been running games a long time, and in typical combat (non-planned, non-ambush style, where the players don't have time to get special high, protected ground that would be good for archers) a bow fighter can get a couple - four good shots off before he's meleeing with someone. Even if some other melee fighters are keeping the enemies from reaching the archer, shooting into a melee is hard and dangerous for your comrades.

I'm thinking of house ruling that magical ammunition is 1/10th the book cost. Anybody have any thoughts on magical ammunition?

Thelbar The Barbarian (aka Paul)

 

[Pax]

Hold on a moment there, Tex.

Consider that Ammunition +'s STACK with BOW +'s. a +5 arrow fired from a +5 bow, is +10 to hit and damage!

A dedicated bow fighter should be more concerned with his or her BOW, than with their ammunition.

Frnakly, I'd save my money and normally use normal arrows. Buy special-purpose magic arrows ("arrow +1 of sure striking", for high-DR monsters; "arrow +1 of ghost touch", for incorporeals; "arrow +1 of mercy" for nonlethal attacks; and so on -- all examples, IIRC, being +2 arrows for pricing purposes, btw).

With the saved money of not tryignto have magic arrows for every attack, I would buy the best magical bow the DM let me lay hands to.

And then buy lots of MAsterwork and Silvered arrows. Possibly, from S&F, the Alchemist's Arrows as well.

The ONLY reason you NEED a +anythign arrow, is to deal with targets that have DR.

 

[Numion]

Of course the fighter could always ask the group Wizard / Cleric to cast Greater Magic Weapon on his arrows. At higher levels it's pretty good bang for 3rd / 4th level spell.

If the caster is still reluctant to do it, buy a pearl of power (3rd / 4th level spell) for him. With 9000 / 16000 gp, endless supply of magic arrows.

BTW, bow's and arrows don't stack in my game, but that's a house rule. The archer is still overkill, so no harm done.

 

[Pax]

Numion, do you at least then allow the Bow's + to work against the DR of what the archer attacks? Normally, the bow's + does NOT in fact help against DR, only the arrows' + helps ...

Otherwise you're penalising archers severely in such cases, IMO.

 

[Numion]

Numion, do you at least then allow the Bow's + to work against the DR of what the archer attacks? Normally, the bow's + does NOT in fact help against DR, only the arrows' + helps ...

Otherwise you're penalising archers severely in such cases, IMO.

Yes I allow that. My house rule was made because the archers to-hit bonuses got really ludicrious. They still are, actually. Well, I'll know better next time than to allow Order of the Bow Initiate

 

[Zad]

So your problem isn't with archery, or with stacking, it's with OOBI?

I'm an archer. Yes, my hit bonuses are high. Very high.

On the other hand, it's offset by a number of things - magic ammo issues, ranged weapon protections, DR, hardness, etc. And on the other side of the equation, melee combattants get access to things like power attack, cleave, expertise, and so on.

My general view has been that archers are very likely to hit, while melee can do a good bit more damage. In the low-mid levels, the archers were outdamaging the melee, but now around 15th level, the melee are really coming on strong, and are putting me to shame on damage. I am content to think it's a reasonable balance.

 

[Vaxalon]

GMW works great until the archer gets hit with a dispel.

I'm seriously thinking of creating a golem with a really high DR that casts dispels instead of the slow/gas attacks that stone and iron golems get. It'll kick butt against all those GMW archers.

 

[Thanee]

Is GMW even dispelled, when a targeted dispel hits the character carrying the arrows?

An area dispel would work, of course, but does a targeted dispel also work? The GMW isn't exactly cast on the character!

Bye
Thanee

 

[Umbran]

As a DM, I feel it's a balance issue. A bow fighter type seems disadvantaged in comparision to a melee fighter type. Unless it's supposed to be offset by the fact that the bow fighter type gets the advantage of NOT being in melee.

Staying out of melee and stacking the enhancement bonuses of bow and arrow are the main balances, yes.

A properly planned bow fighter shouldn't have too many problems staying out of melee. If he can't, then perhaps he needs to review the movement rules, or look into movement-related Feats or magic items to keep him where he needs to be.

One major trick a bow-fighter should be using is a high Spot score. That should keep the number of ambushes low, and the encounter distance high.

 

[Vaxalon]

Yep. A targetted dispel works on the target and everything he's carrying.