D&D General Magic Classes and Home setting Advice

[Xeviat]

I'm finally getting back to running games in my home setting. The setting was originally created with fiction in mind, which I likely won't get around to finishing/publishing, but that's neither hear nor there. I've tweaked a number of the races/species/lineages to fit the setting (some available, some changed, etc.), but the magic classes are where I run into a little bit of trouble.

In my setting, the divinities are not grand all powerful beings ruling over concepts and cosmic forces. They're far more local. It is a more animistic setting, where a sword is magic because its spirit is powerful, gods are mostly gods of locations or ancestral spirits. But, while I'm comfortable restricting the choices of player races (since most are still available), I didn't want to restrict class choices or go through the trouble of making my own classes. So, I'm having a little trouble determining where each of the spellcasting classes fit into the world.

"God" is a name given to mostly benevolent spirits which people worship or offer veneration to receive their blessings or out of simple respect. "Demon" is a name given to more malevolent spirits which people worship or venerate in order to calm them or to redirect their wrath. "God" kind of implies good, "demon" doesn't always mean evil, and the two distinctions can shift over time. The Forest god could become more destructive and become known as a demon if angered. Additionally, even though "god" is a big title, it does not mean the spirit is all powerful. The god of a forest could be no more powerful than an advanced Awakened Tree, or a Giant Elk.

My initial intention was this:
Clerics are spellcasters who serve a particular deity.
Druids are spellcasters who make partnerships with the spirits of nature and are able to entreat their aid.
Sorcerers are spellcasters whose own spirit has magical power.
Wizards are spellcasters who learn how to manipulate the magical power present around them.

But, aside from a few of the bigger deities of the setting, if clerics were tied to a particular spirit it seems like they'd be tied down to a location, as a deity's interests wouldn't extend too far.

So, I'm struggling with where the line between clerics and druids should be in my animistic setting. And then that brings me to wondering where Warlocks fall in. Part of me wants to draw a line between Clerics and Warlocks as Clerics being the priests of gods and Warlocks being the servants of demons, but that doesn't work since the distinction between god and demon can be nebulous and subjective.

And then there's Bards.

Anyone have any advice?

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

But, aside from a few of the bigger deities of the setting, if clerics were tied to a particular spirit it seems like they'd be tied down to a location, as a deity's interests wouldn't extend too far.

I don't know if it would fit in your setting, but here's my take on this particular limitation.

If you see Clerics as servant of a local god, yes, its logical that they would find little interest to act outside of their area. But if you are not having almighty gods, the relationship with their clergy could be very different. "The first son of each family born around the Great Forest should be dedicated to Great Elk by exposing them in the forest from dawn to dusk. Most will live, as the Great Elk will generally reject the sacrifice made by the pious parents and let their child live, yet some will be taken, marked with the sign of the Great Elk and empowered by him and achieve a great destiny". And you have a Cleric that could do whatever he wants, including defending the local communities as he was raised by feys in the forest, but otherwise free to venture in the world. You mentionned ancestor spirits? "All the clan worship the founder of the clan, and he blesses each seventh son of a seventh son with extraordinary powers as a reward for the fertility of the family, raising many warriors to the clan". You don't need to have power coming from regular worship and service but could be the gift given as a result of a former (multi-generational?) worship and service. You could even have it be semi-random. The god of the city elects random children to be his priests, as a reward for the worship of the whole city. Except that they must spend one hour praying him each day and never shave their heads, they have no obligations. The wonder they will make will be associated with the god of the city and prompt all the other citizen to pray him. He doesn't need them to serve in a temple, if they become heroes of legend, it's enough to draw people to the city and benefit from the protection of the god of such an heroic figure. They would feel more like "greek heroes" than "ordained priests of monotheistic religions". For some little gods, you could have the PC actually be heroes in the greek sense. "No, you don't owe me any service or worship, but you get powers because your father isn't... look, it's complicated."

You could do no difference backgroundwise between clerics and druids (they got a different kind of abilities from their god, maybe with more purpose for the druid), just keeping the classes mechanically distinctive. I'd make Clerics and Warlock have the same kind of relationships with their patrons, but the details chances (clerics are blessed by benevolent spirits, warlock go to powerful spirits and actively make a deal for power). That's why warlock seem more bound to their patron, because they sought them and made a deal, while the deal-making was very shallow when you're just blessed by a god because one of your ancestor was very pious. But you could have both good and evil patron for clerics and warlock, depending on how they are approached.

 

[Hawk Diesel]

I agree with @Galandris in keeping warlocks and clerics thematically the same while mechanically distinct. I think you could say the same for wizards and bards, where wizards manipulate magic logically and conceptually while bards do so through vibration and resonance.

Another consideration is that even though gods may be weaker and more localized, that doesn't mean they can't extend their influence beyond that localized region. In fact, this would make clerics all the more necessary and to have them travel the world. Each cleric can act as a living scry sensor for that god and allow for a path for their influence. The god is the spider, and the clerics are the web through which the spider can sense, move, and act.

 

[Bawylie]

There is no difference between a cleric and a warlock (and a Druid). Each enters an agreement with a powerful entity that bestows power on the disciple in exchange for some service of some kind.

A patron who is tied to a specific location would want adherents who are NOT tied to that location so that it can advance its goals and pursue its interests remotely. A River God in your world may well be interested in what comes in upriver or what goes out downriver. A Forest God might want a keen eye on civilizational advancement.

A Druid is simply a cleric who’s God(s) are various nature spirits. A warlock is a cleric who’s patron is a Demon. A cleric is a warlock who’s god is a Patron. It’s really all the same. “I get powers from a supernatural being and I have to do some stuff for them with those powers, but also whatever I want to do so long as it doesn’t make them mad.”

 

[Ath-kethin]

A patron who is tied to a specific location would want adherents who are NOT tied to that location so that it can advance its goals and pursue its interests remotely.

I came here to make essentially this same point. A god being localized didn't have to mean its followers are too. After all, non-localized followers are how faiths spread and grow.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

WotC has kind of played fast and loose with to what extent Warlocks are supposed to derive their power directly from their patrons and to what extent the patrons have just taught them secret knowledge of how to manipulate magic on their own. One solution to your problem is to just lean harder towards the latter point on the continuum for Warlocks and for Clerics as well. If clerics don't get magic from their gods but rather learn magical secrets through divine revelation then they can roam all over the place. Perhaps these secrets are comparable to those a Wizard knows, or perhaps they are more like knowing the secret language by which comparable divine beings can be entreated wherever they go. Perhaps the Cleric's god effectively gives them diplomatic credentials to be aided by allied gods around the setting.

I would caution that while I think the idea of gods not being particularly powerful in a setting is pretty cool, it is hard to square with the scale of D&D magic. If folk are worshiping awakened trees just wait until they meet a level 5 caster.

 

[NotAYakk]

Sorcerer: Spirit in their Bloodline manifests as magic.
Wizard: Uses ancient deals made between mortals and spirits, written as spells, to compell effects
Warlock: Has made a new binding contract with a great spirit for power.
Paladin/Cleric: Imbued with the power of a Great Spirit, blessed.
Druid: Fluent in spiritual languages, befriends local nature spirits, who do magic for the Druid to be friendly.
Ranger: Plays the ancient game of preditor and prey. Sacrificies prey spirits in thanks, mi,ics preditor spirits in worship.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

WotC has kind of played fast and loose with to what extent Warlocks are supposed to derive their power directly from their patrons and to what extent the patrons have just taught them secret knowledge of how to manipulate magic on their own. One solution to your problem is to just lean harder towards the latter point on the continuum for Warlocks and for Clerics as well. If clerics don't get magic from their gods but rather learn magical secrets through divine revelation then they can roam all over the place. Perhaps these secrets are comparable to those a Wizard knows, or perhaps they are more like knowing the secret language by which comparable divine beings can be entreated wherever they go. Perhaps the Cleric's god effectively gives them diplomatic credentials to be aided by allied gods around the setting.

Yup. Divine magic isn't necessarily the default assumption of a "wage" given by the god because the cleric of the Northwest Birmingham Grove is tending the sacred trees, as that would limit the cleric of such a god to have interest in roaming the world. Another relationship is needed, possibly different for each god & divine caster. You could also go with the idea of a cleric empowered by a particular god but devoted to a pantheon. "The world has been created by the spirits of everything, even the lowliest sapling has a god tending to it, and lack of worship will end with the world experiment being cancelled in a great flood" can be a common tenet of the faith and instead of having a priest of a particular or in a monotheistic-like approach, have them be priest of the whole pantheons, with a particular blessing from a specific, local god (granting just the domain spells). So even if there is a preference for a local shrine, saving the world is good as a global interest and will warrant the divine spells granted by the whole pantheon.

I would caution that while I think the idea of gods not being particularly powerful in a setting is pretty cool, it is hard to square with the scale of D&D magic. If folk are worshiping awakened trees just wait until they meet a level 5 caster.

Yes. Possible solutions:

a) The function of the gods is to be worshipped. It's not the function of mortals; A 5th level spellcaster can cast a fireball and claim he's more powerful than the awakened tree, so he is more powerful than a god... Then the local Zeus smite him with a thunderbolt because he will not accept disturbance in the world order. Many small gods doesn't mean the absence of a few major divinity with a vested interest in the "diivne order of the world". Stories of people getting 10d6 thunder damage a round for hubris abound and are very well known especially among 5th level spellcasters ;-)

b) Go for it. You can have the locals be awed by the spellcaster. Will they stop worship the awakened tree (now the awakened log)? No. Because their soul will go to hell if they worship false gods and their whole and only goal in life is ensure happy afterlife. If the players want to start a cult and subvert the world's dominant animism, that's a viable campaign goal. Maybe they will establish a new divine order among which, at level 20, they will ascend to godhood and replace animism with a greek-like pantheon made of themselves... but that will be more difficult than just awing a few Commoners by casting spells.

 

[NotAYakk]

I would caution that while I think the idea of gods not being particularly powerful in a setting is pretty cool, it is hard to square with the scale of D&D magic. If folk are worshiping awakened trees just wait until they meet a level 5 caster.

That awakened tree is their tree. The level 5 caster is some foreign god.

Sure, they'll treat the foreign god with fear and respect, but not love.

 

[Li Shenron]

I'm finally getting back to running games in my home setting. The setting was originally created with fiction in mind, which I likely won't get around to finishing/publishing, but that's neither hear nor there. I've tweaked a number of the races/species/lineages to fit the setting (some available, some changed, etc.), but the magic classes are where I run into a little bit of trouble.

In my setting, the divinities are not grand all powerful beings ruling over concepts and cosmic forces. They're far more local. It is a more animistic setting, where a sword is magic because its spirit is powerful, gods are mostly gods of locations or ancestral spirits. But, while I'm comfortable restricting the choices of player races (since most are still available), I didn't want to restrict class choices or go through the trouble of making my own classes. So, I'm having a little trouble determining where each of the spellcasting classes fit into the world.

"God" is a name given to mostly benevolent spirits which people worship or offer veneration to receive their blessings or out of simple respect. "Demon" is a name given to more malevolent spirits which people worship or venerate
So, I'm struggling with where the line between clerics and druids should be in my animistic setting. And then that brings me to wondering where Warlocks fall in. Part of me wants to draw a line between Clerics and Warlocks as Clerics being the priests of gods and Warlocks being the servants of demons, but that doesn't work since the distinction between god and demon can be nebulous and subjective.

And then there's Bards.

Anyone have any advice?

Don't draw the lines.

The difference between a Cleric and a Druid and a Warlock can be simply in their abilities. You could have a world with ONE source of magic and still use all the PHB classes.

And Clerics can easily be servants of many or even all deities.