D&D General wait what is arcane magic anyway?

Voranzovin

Explorer
A few years ago, I wrote up a description of my view of arcane magic in the voice of the character I was playing at the time:


I tried to make something here that was big and flexible enough in concept to cover all of DnDs wierd contradictory concepts of magic. You can sort of see how psionics would fit in here, if I'd ever had the time or attention to expand it.

That said, Felix Vance, the character, was very much made on the Sherock Holmes mold: that is, he's a good guy who wants to help people underneath, but on the surface he can be a real **** to people who aren't his intellectual equals (which, with a 20 int, is basically everyone.) So take his distain for other forms of magic here with a grain of salt--that's just his opinion, man.

Edit: Just came to my attention that the doc didn't have permissions that let anyone read it--sorry, that's been fixed
 
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EzekielRaiden

Follower of the Way
In my DW game, "arcane" magic doesn't strictly exist--but wizard aka "Waziri" magic does, and their way of doing things really is quite different from anyone else. In brief, their magic works by reverse-engineering other forms of magic, developing new first principles, and then re-applying those principles in a rigorous, controlled fashion. This has a significant perk: almost any other magical effect is at least theoretically possible for them to copy! It also has a significant detriment: it is extremely risky to do it wrong.

This leads to a terribly quixotic, even schizophrenic attitude among most Waziri mages. On the one hand, they need examples of other magic traditions in order to expand the frontiers of theirs, but on the other, they can be extremely prideful and look down on everyone else as using magic without understanding it, sabotaging their very efforts to learn more. Likewise, on the one hand, they need to be experimentalists in order to develop new magic...but they need to be extremely risk-averse in order to survive learning how to use Waziri magic in the first place, because wrong incantations have disastrous results, ranging from "blowing up the room you're in" to "liquefying your own organs" to "successfully animating your own skeleton" etc., etc. Many who pursue the career drop out, and of those who stick with it, a reckless few still get themselves killed every now and then, cementing the need for caution.

So that's what "arcane" magic is in this world: phenomenal cosmic power, but limited by mortal failings; infinite potential, hemmed in by potential for disaster; being an incredibly powerful tradition....and letting it get to your head.

In other words, pretty much exactly what being a "wizard" is parsed as in most D&D fantasy universes, but there's a reason for it, instead of just expecting folks to roll with it.
 

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
In my DW game, "arcane" magic doesn't strictly exist--but wizard aka "Waziri" magic does, and their way of doing things really is quite different from anyone else. In brief, their magic works by reverse-engineering other forms of magic, developing new first principles, and then re-applying those principles in a rigorous, controlled fashion. This has a significant perk: almost any other magical effect is at least theoretically possible for them to copy! It also has a significant detriment: it is extremely risky to do it wrong.

This leads to a terribly quixotic, even schizophrenic attitude among most Waziri mages. On the one hand, they need examples of other magic traditions in order to expand the frontiers of theirs, but on the other, they can be extremely prideful and look down on everyone else as using magic without understanding it, sabotaging their very efforts to learn more. Likewise, on the one hand, they need to be experimentalists in order to develop new magic...but they need to be extremely risk-averse in order to survive learning how to use Waziri magic in the first place, because wrong incantations have disastrous results, ranging from "blowing up the room you're in" to "liquefying your own organs" to "successfully animating your own skeleton" etc., etc. Many who pursue the career drop out, and of those who stick with it, a reckless few still get themselves killed every now and then, cementing the need for caution.

So that's what "arcane" magic is in this world: phenomenal cosmic power, but limited by mortal failings; infinite potential, hemmed in by potential for disaster; being an incredibly powerful tradition....and letting it get to your head.

In other words, pretty much exactly what being a "wizard" is parsed as in most D&D fantasy universes, but there's a reason for it, instead of just expecting folks to roll with it.
Except in D&D there is sadly no potential for disaster. Everything just works.
 

EzekielRaiden

Follower of the Way
Except in D&D there is sadly no potential for disaster. Everything just works.
I mean, there are no rules for spells blowing up in your face (strictly, anyway) in DW either. I get to make a hard move if someone fails a Cast a Spell roll, but that's not exactly the same thing.

For me, what this means is that any actually-accredited, professional wizards ("Waziri") you meet are good at their jobs. Doesn't mean it's impossible to find an incompetent Waziri...they just don't tend to live very long, so there's a heavy survivorship bias in favor of competence.

I don't personally think that actually having the equivalent of old-school Wild Surge tables every time you "fumble" a spell is good game design, even in the context that it originally served. I find that the incentive structure that creates is one that has pretty negative effects over time and across the overall playerbase.
 

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
I mean, there are no rules for spells blowing up in your face (strictly, anyway) in DW either. I get to make a hard move if someone fails a Cast a Spell roll, but that's not exactly the same thing.

For me, what this means is that any actually-accredited, professional wizards ("Waziri") you meet are good at their jobs. Doesn't mean it's impossible to find an incompetent Waziri...they just don't tend to live very long, so there's a heavy survivorship bias in favor of competence.

I don't personally think that actually having the equivalent of old-school Wild Surge tables every time you "fumble" a spell is good game design, even in the context that it originally served. I find that the incentive structure that creates is one that has pretty negative effects over time and across the overall playerbase.
You said potential for disaster. If in practice that doesn't happen, for any reason, then functionally it isn't true.
 

I don't personally think that actually having the equivalent of old-school Wild Surge tables every time you "fumble" a spell is good game design, even in the context that it originally served.
It probably depends on whether you stick with the original Wild Surge table from the PHB or homebrew your own. My DM felt that the one from the PHB was a little too tame. 😋 So, he created one for our party's Wild Magic Sorcerer. And some of the Wild Surge results from his brewed table were hilarious. 😋
 

TwoSix

Master of the One True Way
You said potential for disaster. If in practice that doesn't happen, for any reason, then functionally it isn't true.
A hard move on a "6-" Cast a Spell roll would be a fairly close equivalent within the DW play style.

But yes, I don't think standard D&D OR Dungeon World supports the "I botched a spellcasting roll and now I'm a fleshless lich" style of something like DCC casting.
 

M_Natas

Hero
on my grand quest to make a more fitting but still sane dnd style world for playing, I realised something, I have no idea how arcane magic is defined as more or less a thing.
I know how divine magic works it is a gift from some sort of god or spirit.
but arcane the other common magic I have no idea how that is supposed to work save how the arcane classes work, as in it seem to be harnessing something and you can learn to do it or do it instinctually.
you do not need a god for it but that there are gods of it and that lesser power can teach it.

does anyone know any more solid things or decent takes on it?
My reading and interpretation of 5e magic:

There is RAW magic everywhere where there is life. Contact with RAW magic is not a good idea (like direct contact to a high voltage powerline).
Then there is a Weave -an intermediate medium that can be used to access RAW magic safely.

The Weave is like a computer processor, that turns electric energy into something useable.
Divine magic is like using a mac to access the Weave. A limited user interface granted by a deity that allows you tightly controlled access on what you can do with the weave.

Arcane magic is accessing the weave with your mind in programming it your self (a programm = a spell).

Warlocks are script kiddies who buy hacker scripts to do stuff with the weave.

Primordial magic (druids) are like a precursor to arcane magic. More rough, less sophisticated, but more raw.
 

Xeviat

Dungeon Mistress, she/her
My take? Magical energy suffuses the world. It's ever present, right there at our fingertips.
Oofta has it right, I think. Magic is magic. Some are born with it, for others it's Maybelline.

Personally, I think some magic is closer to the source, the divine words of creation, which is why some can heal and others can't. Other magic is closer to the primordial roots of the world, and is focused more on destruction.
 


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