D&D 5E Magic Intiative Feat question
tommybahama
Adventurer
As written I would say no but then there is this Sage Advice:
If you have spell slots, can you use them to cast the 1st-level spell you learn with the Magic Initiate feat?
Yes, but only if the class you pick for the feat is one of your classes. For example, if you pick sorcerer and you are a sorcerer, the Spellcasting feature for that class tells you that you can use your spell slots to cast the sorcerer spells you know, so you can use your spell slots to cast the 1st-level sorcerer spell you learn from Magic Initiate. Similarly, if you are a wizard and pick that class for the feat, you learn a 1st-level wizard spell, which you could add to your spellbook and subsequently prepare.
In short, you must follow your character’s normal spellcasting rules, which determine whether you can expend spell slots on the 1st-level spell you learn from Magic Initiate.
Sage Advice Compendium
If you have spell slots, can you use them to cast the 1st-level spell you learn with the Magic Initiate feat?
Yes, but only if the class you pick for the feat is one of your classes. For example, if you pick sorcerer and you are a sorcerer, the Spellcasting feature for that class tells you that you can use your spell slots to cast the sorcerer spells you know, so you can use your spell slots to cast the 1st-level sorcerer spell you learn from Magic Initiate. Similarly, if you are a wizard and pick that class for the feat, you learn a 1st-level wizard spell, which you could add to your spellbook and subsequently prepare.
In short, you must follow your character’s normal spellcasting rules, which determine whether you can expend spell slots on the 1st-level spell you learn from Magic Initiate.
Sage Advice Compendium
Benjamin Olson
Hero
You know the spell, but you must also have it prepared and be of the class you took it in to cast it. Basically although they are the same spells, if you got it off a list for a class you don't have levels in you can't cast it with spell slots.
What this means is:
Bards, Sorcerers, and Warlocks, who have all spells they know from their class prepared at all times now have one more spell they can cast with spell slots if they take Magic Initiate for their own class.
Arcane Tricksters and Eldritch Knights also have all known spells automatically prepared, but they use the Wizard list, so they can take Magic Initiate for a Wizard spell and have it known and prepared at all times.
Wizards now know the spell and so it is added to their spellbook. Unfortunately for them they still have to prepare it to use spell slots with it.
Clerics and Druids already know all the spells for their class so they get nothing.
Anyone who takes it for a class they don't have at least one level in (with the exception of Arcane Tricksters and Eldritch Knights taking Wizard), doesn't get to use their spell slots.
It would be a lot simpler if it was just yes or no, but instead it is has the most esoteric workings of all feats, which I guess fits with arcane education.
What this means is:
Bards, Sorcerers, and Warlocks, who have all spells they know from their class prepared at all times now have one more spell they can cast with spell slots if they take Magic Initiate for their own class.
Arcane Tricksters and Eldritch Knights also have all known spells automatically prepared, but they use the Wizard list, so they can take Magic Initiate for a Wizard spell and have it known and prepared at all times.
Wizards now know the spell and so it is added to their spellbook. Unfortunately for them they still have to prepare it to use spell slots with it.
Clerics and Druids already know all the spells for their class so they get nothing.
Anyone who takes it for a class they don't have at least one level in (with the exception of Arcane Tricksters and Eldritch Knights taking Wizard), doesn't get to use their spell slots.
It would be a lot simpler if it was just yes or no, but instead it is has the most esoteric workings of all feats, which I guess fits with arcane education.
Benjamin Olson
Hero
Shield is a strong choice (pick from the Sorcerer list so that Firebolt is charisma based). It would be stronger if it wasn't so likely to make you wish you could cast it more than once a day, but those are the breaks. Absorb Elements is a similar spell to consider, it would likely get less use, but can save you from massive damage when you do need it.
You might not use the Firebolt often if you have Rogue levels since there is no way to get sneak attack with it, but if you are mainly a bard that might not matter. And whatever, flexibility is underrated by people theorycrafting optimal builds. Don't be a Bard/Rogue so you can be awesome at one or two or three things. Be a Bard/Rogue so you can be decent to great at nearly everything. Firebolt it up.
If you are considering making your Rogue side an Arcane Trickster at some point then take it from the Wizard list so that you can eventually use it with spell slots. You'd be casting with INT for the firebolt though.
Other leading contenders:
Find Familiar: It's even better to get this through ritual caster since it is a ritual spell, but having a familiar to give you regular advantage (ie: the thing Rogues often need to do their job) is pretty sweet. Once again you have the INT casting issue with cantrips.
Something from the Druid or Cleric lists: so you can take Guidance as a cantrip: Because as a Bard/Rogue you are so close to being the greatest skill monkey ever to live, and this cantrip is the one easily acquired thing you are lacking. Unfortunately you would be casting with Wisdom, so you've got to take things where casting stat doesn't matter. Bless for Clerics and Goodberry for Druids are popular.
What subclasses were you considering?
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rgoodbb
Adventurer
If you are thinking a bit of melee rogue, Booming Blade is also nice to add to that sorcerer list you were pondering.
If you have a theme, it's nice to augment that. You may not have the Wis for it but I like Mould Earth, Thorn Whip and Entangle to add a certain woodland flavour to a PC etc.
If you have a theme, it's nice to augment that. You may not have the Wis for it but I like Mould Earth, Thorn Whip and Entangle to add a certain woodland flavour to a PC etc.
Li Shenron
Legend
Ooo, unbelievable... a rule that doesn't favor the wizards, clerics or druids.
It would have been easier, but the reality is that the Magic Initiate feat was never intended as a way to boost your own known spells, but instead as a way for non-spellcasting classes to acquire a small amount of spellcasting without multiclassing (for example in games where the DM allows feats but not multiclassing). The RAW for the feat was written with this purpose in mind. Then, the Sage Advice's job is always to explain what the RAW says or implies, without considerations of fairness, or how things could have been better.
It's actually good that a feat intended for one purpose can also be taken for another purpose (as long as it doesn't result in an exploit), but it doesn't matter that it offers less to some classes than others. A Wizard is normally much better off just adding new known spells by paying GP than spending a feat, and one 1st level spell doesn't make a difference to her. So unless the Wizard really wants to take the feat for the extra cantrips, or the DM makes it difficult to copy spells off scrolls, in most cases a Wizard shouldn't probably bother with this feat.
In fact IMHO the feat gives too little when taken for your own class even to a Sorcerer, which is possibly the class to gain most from it. It's ok-ish if you take it to acquire a spell off another class' list, although spending a whole feat for that is a steep price, but maybe you can pick good spell/cantrips which open up the right tactic for you. It's really a solid feat only when taken by a non-spellcasting class.
It would have been easier, but the reality is that the Magic Initiate feat was never intended as a way to boost your own known spells, but instead as a way for non-spellcasting classes to acquire a small amount of spellcasting without multiclassing (for example in games where the DM allows feats but not multiclassing). The RAW for the feat was written with this purpose in mind. Then, the Sage Advice's job is always to explain what the RAW says or implies, without considerations of fairness, or how things could have been better.
It's actually good that a feat intended for one purpose can also be taken for another purpose (as long as it doesn't result in an exploit), but it doesn't matter that it offers less to some classes than others. A Wizard is normally much better off just adding new known spells by paying GP than spending a feat, and one 1st level spell doesn't make a difference to her. So unless the Wizard really wants to take the feat for the extra cantrips, or the DM makes it difficult to copy spells off scrolls, in most cases a Wizard shouldn't probably bother with this feat.
In fact IMHO the feat gives too little when taken for your own class even to a Sorcerer, which is possibly the class to gain most from it. It's ok-ish if you take it to acquire a spell off another class' list, although spending a whole feat for that is a steep price, but maybe you can pick good spell/cantrips which open up the right tactic for you. It's really a solid feat only when taken by a non-spellcasting class.
Find Familiar is a solid choice for any character (especially if your Dm is using flanking rules). The ability to use touch spels through your familiar is good for bard or arcane trickster (cure wounds at range if your familiar doesnt get fragged)... I try to work magic initiate in all my builds just to get a familiar...
It really depends what you want.
As a good example, I've used a variant human with magic initiate as a nice "Blessed by the gods" effect. For an example - take an Urchin background, build a Rogue with good persuasion, and grab Magic Initiate from the Cleric class list - guidance, thaumaturgy and bless.
Roleplay as someone who doesn't know where the power comes from, but takes full advantage of it
As a good example, I've used a variant human with magic initiate as a nice "Blessed by the gods" effect. For an example - take an Urchin background, build a Rogue with good persuasion, and grab Magic Initiate from the Cleric class list - guidance, thaumaturgy and bless.
Roleplay as someone who doesn't know where the power comes from, but takes full advantage of it
