D&D 5E The lazy fix to alchemists

[humble minion]

You can explicitly only infuse non-magical items.

Argh, I didn't catch that, you're right of course. So wearing armour and infusing the shield is the only option there.

 

[Zardnaar]

Doesn't work that way. You can explicitly only infuse non-magical items. And you explicitly get the ability it infise the armour's special weapon separately from the rest of the armour only at level 9

Wife tested armorer up to 10. Basically switches on level 9 or 10.

The gauntlet weapons can be infused and sharpshooter effect.

Wasn't that exciting but was decent.

Jackbof all trades tool specialist a thing?

Gauntlets of Ogre Power shenanigans also viable

 

[humble minion]

As far as your suggestions... a great fix to the alchemist is to play an Apothecary instead, a new class from the Sebastian Crowe's Guide to Drakkenheim book. It has several subclasses that match the examples you've given. I actually play a mutagenist, a goblin who turns into a 9 foot ogre via the use of a special elixir...

Is this available anywhere for non-backers yet? I looked around but all i could find was the three-level sample on the kickstarter page.

 

[Ancalagon]

Is this available anywhere for non-backers yet? I looked around but all i could find was the three-level sample on the kickstarter page.

hello

they can now be found here: Sebastian Crowe’s Guide to Drakkenheim: PDF | Ghostfire Gaming

Sebastian Crowe’s Guide to Drakkenheim: Hardcover Book | Ghostfire Gaming

ghostfiregaming.com

 

[I'm A Banana]

Hello

(I know 5.5 is coming, but the artificer won't be updated for a while, so "tweaks" are still relevant )

The alchemist is by far the worse artificer subclass. It's underwhelming. I thought it needed 2 things:
a) a small power boost
b) an improvement to the "potions" power (the Elixirs).

For a), I already had the answer. First, one more cantrip. 2 cantrips is really limiting, but 3 is great (guidance, attack cantrip, mending). Second, 2 extra infusions, but they have to be the alchemy jug (because you're an alchemist!!!) and the homunculus (very on brand for an alchemist, esp if it's an "organic" one as opposed to a mini robot. Can be huge for RP, and very solid utility + a bit of firepower). I know this isn't what everyone would do, it's not very creative but it works and it's easy.

But what about b)? What about the "potions"? I had all these plans for something ambitious to "fix the alchemist once and for alllll!!!!!" based on my work on the GLOG alchemist but... it seems this isn't happening. So what to do? Then it hit me:

1: The potions are chosen by the alchemist, not random
2: You don't get 1, you get 1 per prof bonus. So now it scales decently with level.

I think that these changes make the alchemist more powerful without being excessive, complicated, or changing the nature of the alchemist. This is still a mainly utility/support character, but they have a bit more oomph now, oomph they sorely needed.

What do yo think?

P.S. It is very possible I am not the first to think of this.

Having played an Alchemist artificer from LV 3-13, I think my XP might be relevant.

If you're looking for a fix that isn't too radical, the best way to do it is to pump up their potion powers. All artificers are half-casters (so spells aren't your main firepower) with a class feature that is their bread and butter for determining their actions in combat. You got your gun, your rocket punch, or your robot cat.

Alchemists have their elixirs. They get one potion per day for free, and can create more by spending a spell slot (which also lets them choose the effect).

The effects of the elixirs are kind of underwhelming in terms of "things you spend your action to do in a fight." The main advantage is that you can front-load these (when you get this specialty at 3rd level, you can give your tank +1 AC, give your rogue +1d4 on attack rolls that stacks with bless, and save one for healing in a pinch, and that's your spells for the day...plus you have one extra potion you rolled for). But, this isn't an interesting thing to do with your action that says "I am an alchemist!" If you do this, you do all your interesting things before the fight starts, and are left doing basic attacks and cantrips in the fight. I bet we can get that distribution better. Also, it doesn't make a lot of tactical sense to spend anything more than a 1st-level slot on these.

I'd do the following things:

• Alchemists can use their experimental elixirs more quickly. They can do it as a bonus action, or as a reaction to an ally within 5 feet of them taking damage.
• Alchemists can use their experimental elixirs at range. Maybe, within 30 feet. They spray it or sprinkle it or throw a needle laced with it or huck a sack filled with it.
• Make at least one "damage option" elixir. Have it deal 1d6 poison, necrotic, or acid damage (or more if we don't vibe with the "bonus action" use), and you can apply it to your weapon or another person's weapon and carry that bonus damage around for their next attack.

You could consider even more experimental elixir abilities, you could consider adding upgrades if you spent higher level slots to make more, etc., but I think these three changes alone would make it more dynamic. As it is, my character would typically run in and give a buff to a PC with their action that was then more or less immediately forgotten, or they'd buff themselves and then spend the fight casting poison spray. With these tweaks, I'd be looking for ways to quickly work using my elixirs into my turn. I pass by an ally, slap their back with a poultice, they get a mini-bless, I still take my turn (which might just be casting poison spray, but at least I did something that felt alchemist-y as well!).

 

[Ancalagon]

Having played an Alchemist artificer from LV 3-13, I think my XP might be relevant.

If you're looking for a fix that isn't too radical, the best way to do it is to pump up their potion powers. All artificers are half-casters (so spells aren't your main firepower) with a class feature that is their bread and butter for determining their actions in combat. You got your gun, your rocket punch, or your robot cat.

Alchemists have their elixirs. They get one potion per day for free, and can create more by spending a spell slot (which also lets them choose the effect).

The effects of the elixirs are kind of underwhelming in terms of "things you spend your action to do in a fight." The main advantage is that you can front-load these (when you get this specialty at 3rd level, you can give your tank +1 AC, give your rogue +1d4 on attack rolls that stacks with bless, and save one for healing in a pinch, and that's your spells for the day...plus you have one extra potion you rolled for). But, this isn't an interesting thing to do with your action that says "I am an alchemist!" If you do this, you do all your interesting things before the fight starts, and are left doing basic attacks and cantrips in the fight. I bet we can get that distribution better. Also, it doesn't make a lot of tactical sense to spend anything more than a 1st-level slot on these.

I'd do the following things:

• Alchemists can use their experimental elixirs more quickly. They can do it as a bonus action, or as a reaction to an ally within 5 feet of them taking damage.
• Alchemists can use their experimental elixirs at range. Maybe, within 30 feet. They spray it or sprinkle it or throw a needle laced with it or huck a sack filled with it.
• Make at least one "damage option" elixir. Have it deal 1d6 poison, necrotic, or acid damage (or more if we don't vibe with the "bonus action" use), and you can apply it to your weapon or another person's weapon and carry that bonus damage around for their next attack.

You could consider even more experimental elixir abilities, you could consider adding upgrades if you spent higher level slots to make more, etc., but I think these three changes alone would make it more dynamic. As it is, my character would typically run in and give a buff to a PC with their action that was then more or less immediately forgotten, or they'd buff themselves and then spend the fight casting poison spray. With these tweaks, I'd be looking for ways to quickly work using my elixirs into my turn. I pass by an ally, slap their back with a poultice, they get a mini-bless, I still take my turn (which might just be casting poison spray, but at least I did something that felt alchemist-y as well!).

I completely agree with you that the main problem of the alchemist is that their main "shtick" is weak. If you compare all the other subclass features they are somewhat equivalent (to other artificer subclasses), but that can't make up for the weakness of the elixirs.

What you're considering is making them easier to use, essentially, while my fix was "more of them, + some minor power boosts". I do like your idea, but I don't think by themselves is "enough".

As far as creating more elixirs etc, this is no longer a "lazy" fix and if we're going to overhaul them, I'm going to go all in and insert my own alchemical system (previously mentioned).

edit: where are my manners - thank you for your reply! How was your play experience, what campaign was it for?

 

[I'm A Banana]

I completely agree with you that the main problem of the alchemist is that their main "shtick" is weak. If you compare all the other subclass features they are somewhat equivalent (to other artificer subclasses), but that can't make up for the weakness of the elixirs.

What you're considering is making them easier to use, essentially, while my fix was "more of them, + some minor power boosts". I do like your idea, but I don't think by themselves is "enough".

As far as creating more elixirs etc, this is no longer a "lazy" fix and if we're going to overhaul them, I'm going to go all in and insert my own alchemical system (previously mentioned).

edit: where are my manners - thank you for your reply! How was your play experience, what campaign was it for?

The artificer overall looks weaker on paper than I think it is in play. The subclass feature at 3rd level needs to carry the bulk of the playstyle vibe, but none of the subclasses have the power budget to spend on much more than "it's a slightly different weapon attack" and alchemists don't even have that! If they could make an "attack potion" (a grenade!), and didn't have to spend a whole turn delivering their potion (usually, move + action, + maybe another action if you forgot to make your own potions before the fight), I think that'd go a long way. As written, the alchemist does have some power (that +1 AC along with the other artificer stuff can give them the highest AC in the game, the +1d4 to attack rolls that stacks with other buffs is very nice!), it's just all borked by action economy and effects that are kind of easy to forget, IMXP.

The alchemist I ran was in a Theros game (Greek myth kind of setting). That setting has a goddess who is basically a snake goddess of poison and medicine and nature, so I played a devotee of that goddess who was kind of a bronze age surgeon, using antivenom and healing with gross bugs and learning about things like "patient consent" for the first time. I was kind of the only INT-focused character in the party, so that ended up being my niche. I buffed the melee martials, and because I had a frankly obscene AC and a healthy CON, I could definitely tank some hits, despite the RP being mostly squishy wizard. I really noticed the damage boost of the LV 5 feature, and it definitely made my standard attacks of poison spray and ray of sickness viable at even the higher levels. I feel like I didn't damage as hard as the bard or the martials, and I didn't buff or heal as well as the cleric, but I was tough to kill, and fairly consistently picking up unconscious party members. I also don't think I used my elixir powers as much as would have been optimal, in part because those effects are so easy to ignore. Though, I think that might have a lot to do with the problem of buffs in D&D overall. Concentration helps that, but part of the cool thing about the alchemist is that they don't need concentration for their buffs, which also goes back to the "oh, yeah, you should've had +1d4 on that attack" problem, and the class overall not feeling "active" in a special or particularly interesting way.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Why not let the artificer add int mod damage of a type of thier choice to an allies next few attacks as a bonus action?

Like “you pour alchemical mordants on the weapon and it deal 1d4 + Int mod acid, cold, fire, poison, or lightning, damage on a hit until the end of your next turn.”

 

[Ancalagon]

As written, the alchemist does have some power (that +1 AC along with the other artificer stuff can give them the highest AC in the game,

and because I had a frankly obscene AC

Why would your AC as an alchemist be so good? Medium armor and shield is decent, the +1 AC boost is nice sure but... highest AC in the game? I don't see it. You don't have the shield spell, or other "special effects" that can really boost your AC very high. Am I missing something?

 

[humble minion]

Why would your AC as an alchemist be so good? Medium armor and shield is decent, the +1 AC boost is nice sure but... highest AC in the game? I don't see it. You don't have the shield spell, or other "special effects" that can really boost your AC very high. Am I missing something?

Experimental Elixir to get +1 AC, plus Enhanced Defence infused armour and Repulsion Shield infused shield is the normal recipe as i understand it, for +3 in total over standard at level 6. And of course the SERIOUS optimisers will do all sorts of silly stuff with multiclassing into Forge cleric for another +1, and into sorcerer for Shield, and into fighter for the Defence fighting style and another +1, etc etc.