D&D (2024) 2024 Artificer

[Zardnaar]

I saying you're vastly over-rating just about every other class.

If we're talking about 1st level the Artificer has the same two spell slots as the Cleric, Druid, Bard, Ranger, or Paladin. Those same 2 slots use Cure Wounds for the same healing. That's assuming the Bard prepped Cure Wounds as the only class that cannot swap it in on a long rest, but there's no inherent disadvantage in healing at that point.

At 2nd level the Artificer has the same slots as the Ranger or Paladin still and that will continue. The other classes have one more slot that may or may not be spent on healing. What the Artificer gains instead is Infusions. One 1st level spell once is not worth 2 Infusions, IMO.

It's not until 3rd level when we start to see the spell gap start between half and full casters. Bards, Clerics, and Druids have 2nd level spells and six slots total compared to three slots total.

It's also unfortunate that Right Tool for the Job is so situational. It would be better to move Right Tool for the Job to 2nd level and add another Infusion at this level if we make changes.

Fortunately this is also where subclasses start. If we make a change let Artificers cast one of their bonus spells prepared once per long rest without using a spell slot.

Alchemists gain Experimental Elixirs. Not everyone's favorite but controllable with spell slots. If someone wants to improve that then give 1 free one per point of INT bonus and add two more elixirs to the list.

Armorer gets armor benefits, Artillerist gets Cannons, Battle Smith gets a pet. Mostly good at those levels, might need tweaks.

It's after those levels there's a bit of a lull in class development where Bards, Clerics and Druids are maintaining the spell advantages, but Artificers are grabbing their second subclass features already at 5th level to go with 2nd level spells.

A person might move the new Infusion to 5th level with both Tool Expertise and Flash of Genius, move the subclass abilities to 6th level, and move the Spell Storing Item to 7th level with some changes. Or move the Spell Storing Item to 5th with modifications and Tool Expertise plus Flash of Genius at 7th.

Regardless, currently the Artificer gains the second subclass jump at 5th level while 6th level improves some subclass abilities and gives Tool Expertise and Flash of Genius comes right after that.

At that point the Artificer has plenty for options as an expert type and has spells for healing and status effects and has Infusions.

If they need anything it's more Infusions. They don't have that big gap early.

Using cure is fairly bad. I'll take healing word but casting Cure is bad idea most of the time. Espicially for half caster

 

[Ashrym]

Using cure is fairly bad. I'll take healing word but casting Cure is bad idea most of the time. Espicially for half caster

Using either during combat is often still bad. Action economy after combat is irrelevant so the better healing for the same slot is a better choice, but it was just an example coming from the healing discussion.

Paladins and Rangers also don't have Healing Word. Bards and Druids don't have Sanctuary to prevent damage. None of them has Feather Fall to prevent damage except Bards, who don't have the option to swap it in or out daily with the likelihood of falling.

Feather Fall preventing a 30' fall from damaging 5 PC's is far more efficient than spending the slot on Healing Word to heal one of them.

Sanctuary preventing multiple attacks when someone needs help in combat is more efficient than Healing Word for the slot.

There was a reason healing spells got increased.

Aside from that, Healing Word as a bonus action that costs a slot also limits what action the caster can take. Artificers have other uses for their bonus actions.

But going with Healing Word is still possible. Alchemists get it as a bonus prepared spell on their list. They can also cast Cure Wounds from a Spell Storing Item in the same turn as Healing Word because that doesn't use a spell slot if they want

Given that Potions of Healing are used with a bonus action I would also allow PC's to use Experimental Elixirs as a bonus action.

 

[Zardnaar]

Using either during combat is often still bad. Action economy after combat is irrelevant so the better healing for the same slot is a better choice, but it was just an example coming from the healing discussion.

Paladins and Rangers also don't have Healing Word. Bards and Druids don't have Sanctuary to prevent damage. None of them has Feather Fall to prevent damage except Bards, who don't have the option to swap it in or out daily with the likelihood of falling.

Feather Fall preventing a 30' fall from damaging 5 PC's is far more efficient than spending the slot on Healing Word to heal one of them.

Sanctuary preventing multiple attacks when someone needs help in combat is more efficient than Healing Word for the slot.

There was a reason healing spells got increased.

Aside from that, Healing Word as a bonus action that costs a slot also limits what action the caster can take. Artificers have other uses for their bonus actions.

But going with Healing Word is still possible. Alchemists get it as a bonus prepared spell on their list. They can also cast Cure Wounds from a Spell Storing Item in the same turn as Healing Word because that doesn't use a spell slot if they want

Given that Potions of Healing are used with a bonus action I would also allow PC's to use Experimental Elixirs as a bonus action.

Well I'm saying Bards and Clerics are still better. Alchemist is pants.

This isn't even things like life clerics. Prayer of healing is lvl 3 for a cleric.

Artificer is horrible underpowered in 2024 due to power creep on the other classes. It can do a little bit of everything but nothing well. That's most of its problem.

Also keep in mind with the origin feats the few spells artificers have anyone can get eg guidance. You can take those feats as well but you're not a primary caster. You're always going to struggle dealing damage especially now with sharpshooter nerf. You don't get weapon masteries. Battle Smith is OK at best in 2024.

Healing with spell slots in 2014 is so bad they buffed them in 2024. Healing words good not because of the amount healed but action economy if some ones reduced to 0 hp. Your not casting it to heal them but save their life.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I've played an Artificer in short campaigns and it's super fun out of combat but just pretty weak in terms of damage. And it's straight garbage at Level 1-2, basically unplayable until subclasses at Level 3, I would never play Artificer unless the adventure started at Level 3 or higher

At level 1-2 an artificer is almost a strict improvement over a wizard. Better hp, much better AC, better skills, almost as many spells.

 

[Ashrym]

Well I'm saying Bards and Clerics are still better. Alchemist is pants.

That's still subjective opinion.

This isn't even things like life clerics. Prayer of healing is lvl 3 for a cleric.

Clerics still don't offer Tool Expertise or Flash of Genius, and Find Traps still isn't close to using Thieves' Tools.

Artificer is horrible underpowered in 2024 due to power creep on the other classes. It can do a little bit of everything but nothing well. That's most of its problem.

It's not power creep. Adjustments went both ways. This includes some Artificer spells and how tool interaction works.

Alchemists adding INT mod damage to Acid Splash as an AoE, for example.

Also keep in mind with the origin feats the few spells artificers have anyone can get eg guidance.

I mentioned this. It's at the opportunity cost of a different feat. Artificers (or Clerics or Druids) would have Guidance and that feat instead of either / or.

Musician is a good source of advantage at that level, and Skilled allows for more tool proficiencies and therefore more Expertise for Artificers in addition to Guidance.

You can take those feats as well but you're not a primary caster. You're always going to struggle dealing damage especially now with sharpshooter nerf.

Why do I care? I'm not taking this class for damage in the first place.

I've mentioned this several times. The presumption that Artificers need to do more damage just because other classes can do more damage isn't a reason.

Getting back to Acid Splash, targetting at an opponent and a 5' radius from them can hit more than 4 enemies with the bonus from Alchemist added.

The cantrip spam is a thing for damage expectations for spellcasters, who all rely on cantrips a lot at low levels.

You don't get weapon masteries. Battle Smith is OK at best in 2024.

Which I argued they shouldn't based on the structure and focus of the class, and added there's an opportunity to add Weapon Mastery within Infusions as update for 2024.

Healing with spell slots in 2014 is so bad they buffed them in 2024.

It's still a poor choice.

Healing words good not because of the amount healed but action economy if some ones reduced to 0 hp. Your not casting it to heal them but save their life.

Not taking the damage in the first place is still better. It makes "saving their life" a moot point, but Cure Wounds can also "save their life" if it becomes necessary.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Getting back to Acid Splash, targetting at an opponent and a 5' radius from them can hit more than 4 enemies with the bonus from Alchemist added.

I've been running acid splash as a 10x10 cube. The point of emanation and 5 feet around it. Have others been running it as 15x15?

 

[Neonchameleon]

Battle Smith is already considered one of the best Artificer subclasses and a cantrip instead of an attack doesn't seem like a pet style ability.

This seems likes it's neither necessary nor thematic to me.

Battle Smiths are the only fully functional artificers, but that still makes them part of overall the weakest class in the game (and they were already the weakest caster before 2024).

Buffs are necessary but they should belong to the base class.

What I think they need are more Infusions from which to choose and some balancing within those Infusions. That's the main draw of the class so that's where the first focus on an ability pass should be.

I disagree. I think first of all artificers need two things:

• To craft a free level-appropriate permanent magic item per level
• To have either buffs or "artificer variant" spells that make them at least as good as wizards at "artificer spells" like Continual Flame, Symbol, Magic Mouth, or Fabricate

 

[Zardnaar]

That's still subjective opinion.



Clerics still don't offer Tool Expertise or Flash of Genius, and Find Traps still isn't close to using Thieves' Tools.



It's not power creep. Adjustments went both ways. This includes some Artificer spells and how tool interaction works.

Alchemists adding INT mod damage to Acid Splash as an AoE, for example.



I mentioned this. It's at the opportunity cost of a different feat. Artificers (or Clerics or Druids) would have Guidance and that feat instead of either / or.

Musician is a good source of advantage at that level, and Skilled allows for more tool proficiencies and therefore more Expertise for Artificers in addition to Guidance.



Why do I care? I'm not taking this class for damage in the first place.

I've mentioned this several times. The presumption that Artificers need to do more damage just because other classes can do more damage isn't a reason.

Getting back to Acid Splash, targetting at an opponent and a 5' radius from them can hit more than 4 enemies with the bonus from Alchemist added.

The cantrip spam is a thing for damage expectations for spellcasters, who all rely on cantrips a lot at low levels.



Which I argued they shouldn't based on the structure and focus of the class, and added there's an opportunity to add Weapon Mastery within Infusions as update for 2024.



It's still a poor choice.



Not taking the damage in the first place is still better. It makes "saving their life" a moot point, but Cure Wounds can also "save their life" if it becomes necessary.

Sure it's subjective but Monk fir example was widely regarded as weak. Look what they did to it in 2024.

Rogue and artificer were generally the other 2 widely regarded weak classes. Rogues now the bew contender for worst class in 2024 phb.

I'm not saying no you cant be an artificer. I'm saying it should be buffed in 2024 revision.

If someone really wanted one I would let them and find some way to make it better. Maybe free asi or magic item.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

So rather than dog on the Artificer, lets try and figure out what it needs.

I would expand the Right Tool for the Job to let them create any suit of armor, weapon, a potion of healing or a 1st level scroll. Update this periodically. A greater potion and 2nd level scroll at 6th, 3rd level scroll at 10th, 4th level scroll at 14th, and 5th level scroll at 17. The items disappear when the ability is used again, so its not like they can stockpile.

Flash of Genius I would let them recover 2 uses on a short rest and all on a long rest. Its basically a worse version of bardic inspiration, which is already getting all uses back on a short rest by this level.

I'd already mentioned the abilities to bypass attunement limits are pretty lame non-abilities. I would have them add proficiency modifier, so they can always use all their infusions themselves if desired. Drop Magic Item Adept to 6th, Savant to 10, and Master to 14. Give them a real ability at 18th in place of this "you can use your class" crud they currently get.

Add in that they can restore 1/2/3 item charges during a short rest and all charges on a long rest.

The crafting might have some legs on it. Under 2024 rules, at 10th level they can make 4 potions of healing or 1st level scrolls in a day for 50gp. Like I said, I would drop this to lower levels (6th currently) and offer further cost reduction for higher level spells.

The class has 2 empty levels at 13th and 18th level. At minimum they should get an additional infusion, to bring them inline with warlocks.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I think recharging item charges with spell slots could be awesome.

When the Artificer or their allies use a consumable, they gain THP equal to their their Int mod+half level.

Stealing from the Order cleric, giving a buff to an ally let's them make a single weapon attack.

Id also let the PC roll one use of flash of genius when crafting an item to augment the pooled hours of work.

At higher level I'd let the affect one more item with Infusions that usually only target one object.