Magic Item Creation

[Seeten]

There has been a lot of talk lately about the balancing aspect of magical item creation. I want to discuss it for a moment. Specifically, there is an xp balancing mechanic in place in the RAW, which I dont quite understand the reasoning behind.

Specifically and in point format.

1) Item creation requires valuable feats, which help other people kill monsters.

2) If you took Magical Arms and Armor, you create magical items that help fighters and clerics kill monsters, but dont enable you to do so.

Dealing specifically with #1, I would argue that it requires a significant investment just to get enough items to actually get over the I have a feat less than you hump. You have to go over the "we expect you to have x gold worth of magic items by Y level" threshold, and if the DM holds magic items back, because you can craft them, you have to craft twice as much gear to make up for the shortfall, losing 10 times the xp.

As far as #2 goes, why should I spend my valuable xp to let our fighter wield a wonderful broadsword? How does this benefit me? If I dont craft it, I have more xp, instead of him hogging all the levels, having more levels than me, etc. Now he has more feats and more levels than I do, all because I am making him magic items.

Basically, my biggest problem is this: In order to reap a benefit equivalent to, say, empower spell, I need to craft myself up 1.5x the usual x gold worth of magic items per level just to stay equal. That costs xp. But I lose xp and the rest of the party doesnt, so I am double penalized. First, for not having the feat I would have had in its place, and second, by not having as much xp as everyone else. It also assumes enough breaks in the action to do reasonably serious amounts of crafting, and grotesque amounts of gold I never seem to have, so I end up with less xp, less feats, and less magic items than even a normal person of level x should have.

Discuss?

 

[Crothian]

I'd say the biggest problem with item creation I have seen is the time it takes to make the items. I've had parties leave the Wizard behind while her was crafting items becasue they got impatient.

But as to why crafting a weapon for the fighter is good for the wizard: he keeps you alive!!! The party is a team, you work together. Equiping the rest of the party with really good equipment is great. It also helps for when you find that really powerful item only you can loose and everyone else wants to sell it. Make them some items so you get the staff of the magi or whatever it is.

 

[Wormwood]

In my experience, Scribe Scroll and Craft Wand are absolutely essential to excelling as a Wizard in 3+ed.

 

[Seeten]

Working as a team is awesome, but last I checked the fighter doesnt need to expend any xp to help me out, or protect me or even keep me alive. Craft wand is great, yes, but I dont see how its better than empower spell, unless you have oodles of gold, time and more xp than all the other people. Otherwise, the empower spell guy will be casting level 5 spells while you cast level 4 spells.

 

[the Jester]

Mr. Wizard crafts a broadsword for the fighter so the fighter can kill the big monsters before they grapple the wizard.

In my experience, too, it's the time far more than the xp or gp cost that inhibits tons of item creation. I think that the item creation rules are pretty cool (at least so far, and there have been quite a few pcs with item creation stuff goin' on since 3e came out).

 

[Crothian]

Working as a team is awesome, but last I checked the fighter doesnt need to expend any xp to help me out, or protect me or even keep me alive. Craft wand is great, yes, but I dont see how its better than empower spell, unless you have oodles of gold, time and more xp than all the other people. Otherwise, the empower spell guy will be casting level 5 spells while you cast level 4 spells.

There are rules for having people help you and spend XP for the item as well allowing the fighter to spend XP to help craft it. But you also don't have to if you don't see a reaopn to, which you obviously don't.

 

[Andor]

The obvious answer is to allow some means of letting other contribute XP during item creation.

This could be a skill, A feat (On either part), an item, or even a place.

EG

Item Creation Feat
Bloodwright

You can refine the blood of others to produce the magic energy needed to create magic items.

Prerequisite: Another item creation feat

Benefit: Others can donate XP to your item creation. Each 100xp drained in this way deals 1 point of constitution damage. The donation can be spread out over the course of the item creation process.

Or

Potent Blood
Same thing but the donator takes the feat.

 

[Seeten]

Personally, I have Craft magical arms and armor, and I use it to help my friends, but I am a mage and there is no other spell user, so I am already vastly more powerful than they are, and I dont begrudge it. If we had 2 wizards, one crafting, one not, I'd be much weaker when compared. I just dont see the current triple penalty as being one that "is fair" in the RAW. When reading the "Pet Peeves in D&D" thread, and the Reviews on the Artificers Handbook, it seemed like a lot of people find the current rules fair and that alternate rules are somehow "Breaking the system".

I am more of the mind that the RAW is underpowered, unless abuse is allowed or encouraged by the DM. No group wants to wait around 6 months while you craft 6 items, gold is doled out by the DM in a quantity he chooses, not your choice, and materials are as easy or hard to get as he allows. This means as far as I can tell, through experience in 2 different campaigns with 2 different DM's, these feats generally sit unused, with the potential to be good, but never are. I am wondering if this is basically a stylistic thing, or if its the experience of more people than just me.

I don't mean to say I hate my groups fighters, I use CA&A because its the best example of the worst of the mechanic, in my estimation.

 

[Seeten]

The obvious answer is to allow some means of letting other contribute XP during item creation.

This could be a skill, A feat (On either part), an item, or even a place.

EG

Item Creation Feat
Bloodwright

You can refine the blood of others to produce the magic energy needed to create magic items.

Prerequisite: Another item creation feat

Benefit: Others can donate XP to your item creation. Each 100xp drained in this way deals 1 point of constitution damage. The donation can be spread out over the course of the item creation process.

Or

Potent Blood
Same thing but the donator takes the feat.

I dont think the answer to this is to have anyone take YET another feat. Feats are powerful, and in short supply, and these feats are so mundane that no fighter in their right mind would take them.

I wouldnt ask someone to take one even as the mage in question. It needs to be a mechanic like this: If you are going to be the user of the item, YOU pay the xp. I supply the time and talent.

My group will house rule it however I say, as I am the rules guru, and known to be fair, but I really wonder how others see it, and feel about it.

I get the impression so far everyone finds it fair?

 

[Turjan]

I just dont see the current triple penalty as being one that "is far" in the RAW. When reading the "Pet Peeves in D&D" thread, and the Reviews on the Artificers Handbook, it seemed like a lot of people find the current rules fair and that alternate rules are somehow "Breaking the system".

I agree with your opinion that the system in the RAW is unfair. Yes, it works in the way that it keeps the balance. Yes, it is even plausible in the way that the spellcaster infuses some of his 'magical energy' into the items and, therefore, loses XP. It's unfair nonetheless. If the other players are not willing to compensate the mage for his efforts, he should not consider taking any such feat that only benefits other players; the point of indirect benefits does not really count in this regard, because there are other ways for the wizard to reap benefits for his own survival without increasing the discrepancy in power levels between the fighter and himself. On the other hand, I don't see a problem with using the 'Artificer's Handbook' rules.

I am more of the mind that the RAW is underpowered, unless abuse is allowed or encouraged by the DM. No group wants to wait around 6 months while you craft 6 items, gold is doled out by the DM in a quantity he chooses, not your choice, and materials are as easy or hard to get as he allows. This means as far as I can tell, through experience in 2 different campaigns with 2 different DM's, these feats generally sit unused, with the potential to be good, but never are.

If the time aspect is a problem, then there is something wrong with the DM or the group. Things like that should be discussed before a magic user spends any feats on features that damage him in the long run. The group goes adventuring and harvesting XPs while the wizard loses XPs for the sake of the group by staying behind and producing items for them? This scenario just shows that there is something seriously wrong with group dynamics, nothing else. The same holds true if the DM does not let you use the feat.