Magic Item Math?

[mkletch]

The Magic Item system is so screwed up........

It does work well for a high magic campaign, though. With some 21st level characters, items like this are common among the players:

Aradglir’s Bauble (150,000gp value)
Periapt of Wisdom +6 (base item)
* +4 natural armor
* Gives the wearer a +10 circumstance bonus on Escape Artist checks.
* Allows the wearer to utilize the spell mage hand at will as a hand of the mage.
* Gives a +4 luck bonus on saves vs. poison.
* Acts as a necklace of adaption.

I guess it is a bit off, since we ran the WotC Adventure Path with three characters (and no modifications on the DM-end), so we had a bit of a rough going and more loot than we should for our levels, but it made up for the loss of a character 'slot'.

-Fletch!

 

[Artoomis]

Wow. Although that checks out in th' DMG...doesn't that seem "off" to anyone?

The Magic Item system is so screwed up........

It's "off" because of the change from 10% added to the price for extra powers on slotted items to 100%.

At 10% the above item would be:

4,000 + 4,400 + 4,400 = 12,800, but 24,000 slotless.

It just depends on what you think should cost more - slotless items, or items with multiple powers.

Hmmm..... I hadn't thought about this before, but eliminating all slotless items fixes this completely.

Or, perhaps, making "slotless" be a "slot" of, say, two allowed - so that only two "slotless" items would be allowed - meaning, of course, that all items would cost the same as no items would be truly "slotless."

I like that. I may have to propose that to my group - it might stop all kinds of abuses and keep things from getting out of control.

 

[nightmage61]

Thanks All

I wasn't sure if the math was right about the mask when I looked at other standard list items in the DMG that had the same price point.

FYI this was for a Monk with a very low CHA, hence the mask location. I’m thinking I would have allowed it at the 20K range because it was good role play setup. My starting setup for the game is 20K GP with no one item worth more then 18K (basic +3 weapons). Each will be given an item or items of the GM’s choice to put them a bit above the (I think) 39K GP start for 9thLV.

Thanks for the schooling all.

 

[mkletch]

You can think of items with multiple powers as slotless items. That would jive with the smackdown I got from kreynolds and Artoomis regarding slotless items with multiple powers. Adding an additional power to an item involves welding some little widget (a slotless item) onto the base item, or adding a gem. Items with multiple powers are simply a convenient way of keeping collections of slotless items together.

-Fletch!

 

[Nail]

This should probably go in th' "house rules" forum, but...

Magic item value is determined by:

• Caster Level
• Effective spell level of relevant power
• How often you can use the power
• How many of the items you can have "active" at any one time (i.e. slots)
• How many powers an item has

If that's the case (in spirit, if not in th' rules), then shouldn't a slotless multiple power item cost much more than one with only one power?

If you allow the "double-double" cost mentioned above, it seems like the benefit of such an item is nearly outweighed by the huge cost of such an item. So why not keep that interp.? Especially if slotless itmes are giving you problems?

 

[Spatzimaus]

Again, it comes down to the flavor of the campaign and the desires of the players. If DM fiat alone rides against the DM's desire for iron-clad control at any cost, then that is not a campaign that I want any part in. The DM is merely a player with a different job (albeit more responsibilities).

-Fletch!

What we use IMC is not so much an "iron-clad" DM fiat system as a "research"-style system. That is, the DMG items are absolute, and anything else requires DM's approval through the same sort of research new spells take.
(Since we all DM each other at some point, that means the research works as long as we all agree it's more or less balanced)
If you let the players make any item allowed by the DMG guidelines, you end up with no "waste". The players end up making exactly the items they need without paying for any extras. In my experience this makes loot less important, as it'll conflict with one of their existing items while they could always create a similar item for a free slot. The items with the most "character" are the ones with extras the players might not use often.

This doesn't mean I only stick to the DMG's lists, but it means I use the existing items as more of a guideline than those rules at the end of the chapter. For example, I LIKE that there are only certain slots that can be used for +STR items. For each stat I have a Greater and Lesser slot. Greater slots can have +2, +4, or +6 items, while the lesser slot caps at +4. For STR items, that means the belts are the Greater and gauntlets are the Lesser. Coincidentally, I use the same two slots reversed for DEX. Normally I wouldn't let a player put STR into an amulet, unless it really fit as part of some larger enchantment.

It really comes down to DM's preference: do they view the DMG item lists as absolute and anything beyond that as something they need to approve, or are the custom item rules the baseline and the tables are just examples? I personally don't think you can just use the custom item rules and say that anything is allowed. As an example, someone once brought up a Sage ruling that referred to the "quacks like a duck" guideline about whether something should be a Wondrous Item or something more expensive. If it'd have a market price of over 30k, I'd be more likely to require it to be a Ring or Rod or something.

If any effect can be added to any Wondrous items just by using the cost table in the DMG, what's the point of taking the Rod/Staff/Ring creation Feats? At some point you just have to say, "no, stacking that many effects in one item isn't really appropriate for a Feat you got at level 3." Someone suggested splitting Craft Wondrous into three Feats (Minor, Medium, Major), and that's looking better and better.

And we haven't got into the whole "I want a cheap item that casts Cure Light Wounds or Magic Missile at will for 2k" debate.