Level Up (A5E) Magic Item Price List

[Faolyn]

I think you have lost sight of the economic issue of a market rate for copying npc/library spellbooks & vice versa and moved on to arguing that sorcerers are so poor & oppressed that the stormwind fallacy should handle that instead.

Dude, I have no idea where you're getting any of this at all. I never mentioned sorcerers--you did--and the stormwind fallacy specifically refers to optimization versus roleplaying when playing your PC and has nothing to spending money on anything.

Right now, you're engaging in a gish gallop and just throwing big words at me, presumably to intimidate me. Knock it off.

You think there should be a special downtime activity for people scribing spells. I pointed out that there are already rules for this. Not only do there not need to be a second set of rules, but copying spells takes far less than a week, which is the unit of time used for downtime activities.

Frankly I don't understand why you seem to be arguing that there should not be a market rate to copy spells from npc/library spellbooks or an income producing downtime activity that involves a wizard PC letting others copy spells from their spellbook.

This is actually three different things.

1: A PC borrowing a spellbook from an NPC to copy.

2: A PC borrowing a spellbook from a library to copy.

3: An NPC borrowing a spellbook from a PC to copy.

For 1 and 2 above, this 100% depends on the relationship between the PC and NPC/library and the content of the books in question. Animate dead, fireball, and major image are all 3rd level spells. If you were an NPC, would you charge the same amount for each of these spells? What if necromancy was illegal in town? What if you were in a cold environment, where all the monsters have a weakness to fire? Those things would change the price of those spells.

For 3, the PC is free to set the price for copying out of their spellbook... assuming they're willing to let an NPC touch their stuff.

"Some spells are really powerful"

• mmhmm... which is why the wizard would choose those over more niche ones that might be useful. The wizard doing that with must take spells removes or reduces their ability to pull out ritual spells in 10 minutes & niche spells tomorrow. The wizard not doing that with the must take spells of course removes or reduces their ability to contribute outside of those niche situations. Either wizards are expected to scribe additional spells into their spellbook or they are not and get class features accordingly instead of a gold sink they can only use if the GM decides to give them a bit of treasure that may or may not be useful once they spend a bunch of gold scribing it

Yes, it kind of sucks that wizards aren't all-powerful and capable of casting any spell they want whenever they want it, and instead are limited to the spells they find, stick in their spellbook, and then prepare each day.

It's almost like wizards have to be balanced with the rest of the party.

• "Spells in the spellbook are forever"

None of your highlights shows that spells in your spellbook go away. Just that you can change what spells you have prepared. Those are two different things.

• "no sane player would let an npc walk off with their spellbook"
  • Hence downtime where a sane PC sits there watching a paying NPC copy spells from their spellbook or vice versa

And how many times have you actually seen this happen that you feel like there needs to be special rules for it?

"Sitting down and doing nothing but watching someone else do something" is not a downtime activity. It barely counts as a downtime inactivity. The point of downtime activities is that the PC is accomplishing something during the time they're not actively adventuring. The PC isn't accomplishing anything here.

If you want to make this into a downtime activity, this is also already covered--under "Gaining Renown" in the DMG: A character can spend downtime improving his or her renown within a particular organization (see "Renown" in chapter 1). Between adventures, a character undertakes minor tasks for the organization and socializes with its members. After pursuing these activities for a combined number of days equal to his or her current renown multiplied by 10, the character's renown increases by 1. Only instead of undertaking minor tasks, you're letting that individual or organization use your spellbooks. Substitute "days equal to their current renown x10" with "spell levels copied."

• "that kind of treasure disparity is a bad dm."
  • I point you to the ALPG written by wotc for AL where a character could have a +1 weapon adamantine armor, & an extremely magical ring like ring of protection free action or evasion among other things before a wizard can get a spell scroll at level 17. It's literally a problem that wotc encourages & without a market rate for copying spells wizard PC has no way of pushing back when a DM follows wotc's lead.

That sounds like an Adventures League problem, not a regular play problem.

(Edit: I should also point out that Level Up probably won't be used in AL play.)

• "Scribing a spell to a spellbook improves a wizard's power"
  • It doesn't allow them to prepare more spells. If unprepared it only does anything if prepared or if the spell is a ritual spell. If you give a fighter or something a magic item not as good as the magic items they use regularly it absolutely does not "directly improve" their power by sitting in their pack waiting to maybe get used. Exactly how does an unprepared nonritual spell "directly" improve a wizard's power?
• Having more spells in the spellbook "more versatility and flexibility in your casting choices"
  • This is factually incorrect, the rules simply do not support that. A wizard can't cast any nonritual spell unless it is first prepared. Preparing spells is only done during a long rest.

And here you don't understand what versatility or flexibility means when it comes to D&D wizards.

Because D&D wizards have to be balanced with the rest of the party, they can only cast spells they've prepared. Having more spells in their spellbook means they have more options to prepare from.

 

[Faolyn]

if instead the system assumes most wizard can “borrow” a scroll at a reduced price…than maybe that’s a defined downtime activity (which would be good to point to in the class feature description).

When you copy a spell from a scroll, it destroys the scroll.

 

[Stalker0]

When you copy a spell from a scroll, it destroys the scroll.

I went ahead and double checked this, both in vanilla and the level up document, and this is not the case. there is no mention that the scroll is destroyed

 

[Faolyn]

I went ahead and double checked this, both in vanilla and the level up document, and this is not the case. there is no mention that the scroll is destroyed

It's in the treasure section in the DMG, page 200-201.

"A wizard spell on a spell scroll can be copied just as spells in spellbooks can be copied. When a spell is copied from a spell scroll, the copier must succeed on an Intelligence (Arcana) check with a DC equal to 10 + the spell's level. If the check succeeds, the spell is successfully copied. Whether the check succeeds or fails, the spell scroll is destroyed."

 

[Stalker0]

It's in the treasure section in the DMG, page 200-201.

"A wizard spell on a spell scroll can be copied just as spells in spellbooks can be copied. When a spell is copied from a spell scroll, the copier must succeed on an Intelligence (Arcana) check with a DC equal to 10 + the spell's level. If the check succeeds, the spell is successfully copied. Whether the check succeeds or fails, the spell scroll is destroyed."

Ok then. Well then if nothing else, that needs to be added to the level up wizard section, as a player would never assume that based on the info under the spell copy section of the class.

Does that mean that copying a spell from one spell book to another still works without destruction?

 

[Faolyn]

Ok then. Well then if nothing else, that needs to be added to the level up wizard section, as a player would never assume that based on the info under the spell copy section of the class.

The 5e books are many things. "Well-organized" is not one of them.

Does that mean that copying a spell from one spell book to another still works without destruction?

Yes. My assumption is, spell scrolls are one-use magic items, with magical energy built into them; thus, when you use the scroll, whether to cast from it or to copy from it, you use it up. Spellbooks are not magic items.

 

[tetrasodium]

I pointed out that there are already rules for this.

You claimed that yes, but when outright asked where in the wizard section that was & asked to quote it you doubled down on not needing a special section or prices while not actually bothering to quote the section you claim exists. Every single bullet point in my last reply to you was about something in your post I was quoting in that, you might go back to check what you wrote when people quote you if it seems odd. Clearly you are unable to quote the section you claim exists or you would have done so by now, but it's odd that you pair that with claiming that there is no need for it.

So again, instead of simply asserting that the rules exist, can you quote the rules you are referencing?

 

[Morrus]

Knock it off, guys. There’s no reason to start fighting about this.

 

[jeffh]

So again, instead of simply asserting that the rules exist, can you quote the rules you are referencing?

Did you miss the post where I did exactly this?

 

[CapnZapp]

Whatever feedback Morrus hoped for, I'm pretty sure it wasn't details on spellbook selling...

The lack of detailed feedback and focus on this really minor point really proves my point (made up thread)