Level Up (A5E) Magic Item Price List

Because the costs aren't comparable without including that, but fall neatly in line if you do.

That doesn't answer "Why?" That answers "Where did these numbers come from?"

Why should the in universe price of armor also include a surcharge based on the ideal candidate to wear the armor? Especially when, in universe, there's no way of knowing if you are the ideal candidate or not.
 

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tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Epic
That doesn't answer "Why?" That answers "Where did these numbers come from?"

Why should the in universe price of armor also include a surcharge based on the ideal candidate to wear the armor? Especially when, in universe, there's no way of knowing if you are the ideal candidate or not.

  • Because it still costs a similar amount to make?
  • because capitalism?
  • Because sometimes the system needs to dictate things like this in order to allow the existence of cool things?
 

Mike Myler

Have you been to LevelUp5E.com yet?
So, various different armors. Some additions and removals along the way.
Not going to say anything else, but you have transfixed the designer Discord this morning.

200.gif
 

NotAYakk

Legend
So, various different armors. Some additions and removals along the way.

Light armors: Studded leather is removed. Instead, Brigandine (both cloth and leather) is available as a medium armor. "Cloth" and "Leather" become "Padded Cloth" and "Padded Leather". The price scaling seems to assume +4 from Dex, but an extra tax because it can still go higher with higher Dex.

Medium armors: Half plate is moved to heavy armor. Brigandines are added, and the base AC for Hide seems to have been bumped up to 13.

Heavy armors: Ring mail and Chain mail have been removed. Hauberk was added instead. "Splint" was misspelled as "Split".

Pricing seems to be mostly scaled so that all armors with the same AC have roughly the same price. Any differences from this seem to suggest some extra bonus or penalty from the armor type.

The streamlining of prices looks good, and the armor updates are appreciated. Nothing problematic other than the misspelling. I do have to wonder about what benefits there are among the different armor types to justify choosing a different armor when it otherwise looks like you're just paying for the AC you want.

Assuming you want to buy new armor using a large portion of your starting level wealth (using @Morrus's table, and figuring you're also wanting to consider weapons and other stuff), you're looking at AC 16 by 3rd level, AC 17 by 5th level, AC 18 by 7th level, and AC 19 by 10th level. Heavy armor users should be able to hit AC 20 by around 13th-14th level. With the usual guesstimating caveats, overall it feels reasonable.


Light armors:
Padded Cloth [11]​
Padded leather [12]​

Medium armors:
Hide [13]​
Chain Shirt [13]​
Cloth Brigandine [13]​
Leather Brigandine [14]​
Scale Mail [14]​
Breastplate [14]​

Heavy armors:
Hauberk [16]​
Splint [17]​
Half Plate [17]​
Full Plate [18]​


Medium armor AC includes +2 from Dex. Light armor AC includes +4 from Dex.

ArmorBonusTypeACCost
Padded cloth0Light155
Hide0Medium1510?
Chain Shirt0Medium1550
Cloth Brigandine0Medium1550?
Padded cloth1Light1665
Padded leather0Light1610
Hide1Medium16150
Scale mail0Medium1650
Chain Shirt1Medium16150
Cloth Brigandine1Medium16150
Leather Brigandine0Medium16???
Breastplate0Medium16400
Hauberk0Heavy16???
Padded cloth2Light17500
Padded leather1Light17400
Hide2Medium17500
Scale mail1Medium17250
Chain Shirt2Medium17500
Cloth Brigandine2Medium17500
Leather Brigandine1Medium17400
Breastplate1Medium17500
Hauberk1Heavy17450
Splint [sp]0Heavy17200
Half plate0Heavy17750?
Padded cloth3Light182,500
Padded leather2Light182,500
Hide3Medium182,000
Scale mail2Medium182,000
Chain Shirt3Medium182,000
Cloth Brigandine3Medium182,200
Leather Brigandine2Medium182,200
Breastplate2Medium182,000
Hauberk2Heavy181,500
Splint [sp]1Heavy181,500
Half plate1Heavy182,000
Full plate0Heavy181,500
Padded leather3Light1910,000
Scale mail3Medium198,000
Leather Brigandine3Medium198,000
Breastplate3Medium198,000
Hauberk3Heavy196,000
Splint [sp]2Heavy196,000
Half plate2Heavy198,000
Full plate1Heavy196,000
Splint [sp]3Heavy2024,000
Half plate3Heavy2032,000
Full plate2Heavy2024,000
Full plate3Heavy2196,000
So this pricing pattern has the problem that it makes having heavy armor proficiency pretty damn useless.

You get the same AC for the same amount of gp as someone without that class feature.

Higher armor proficiencies should be useful.

To make it sensible, lets make each level of armor proficiency "worth" 1 AC.

Cloth: 10 AC

Light armor proficiency gives Leather: 11 AC (+1 over cloth), but really 14-16 AC (dex 16-20) and no armor check penalty.

Medium armor proficiency should then give 15-16 AC, with the advantage you only need 14 dex instead of 20. (Note here I didn't give a full +1 AC at the top end).

With disadvantage on stealth, that should be 16-17 AC.

Heavy armor proficiency should give 17-18 AC with disadvantage on stealth. It has strength requirements to compare to the medium armor's dex requirements.

At low levels, characters in light armor are expected to have lower Dex, and lower-tier mundane versions of medium/heavy armor. But by around level 4-8, we should assume top-tier mundane armor, or magical armor, and maxed out dex for light armor wearers.

We can work out the rough budget of a PC by adding up the accumulated acquired wealth and say halving it at each tier.
L 5: about 2000 gp is "expensive"
L 11: about 20000 gp is "expensive"
L 17: about 100000 gp is "expensive"

In T2, +1 leather should be expensive, on the order of 2000 gp. It grants an AC of 17.
+1 medium armor with an AC of 14+1 and 2 dex cap should grant an AC of 17 as well, so should cost about 2000 gp.
With disadvantage on stealth, this becomes 18 AC, so base 15+1.
Heavy armor should grant 19 AC for about 2000 gp, one point more than medium.

These are all approximate. We can halve or double these values and be in the right ballpark.

Light armor can have half the price.
Cloth: 10(+dex) AC is 0 gp,
Leather: 11(+dex) AC is 10 gp, +1 is 1000 gp, +2 is 10000 gp, +3 is 50000 gp
Cheap medium: 13(+2 dex) AC is 50 gp, +1 is 500 gp, +2 is 2000 gp, +3 is 15000 gp
Cheap bulky medium: 14(+2 dex) AC is 100 gp, +1 is 500 gp, +2 is 2500 gp, +3 is 20000 gp
Expensive medium: 14(+2 dex) AC is 200 gp, +1 is 2000 gp, +2 is 15000 gp, +3 is 75000 gp
Expensive bulky medium: 15(+2 dex) AC is 300 gp, +1 is 2500 gp, +2 is 20000 gp, +3 is 100000 gp
Cheap heavy (13 str): 16 AC is 100 gp, +1 is 500 gp, +2 is 2000 gp, +3 is 8000 gp
Medium heavy (13 str): 17 AC is 200 gp, +1 is 2000 gp, +2 is 8000 gp, +3 is 80000 gp
Expensive heavy (15 str): 18 AC is 1000 gp, +1 is 3000 gp, +2 is 30000 gp, +3 is 150000 gp

So:

Leather is 1/2 price for similar AC with capped dex to top tier medium armor.

Cheap versions of armor have cheaper magical versions as well. There is a premium for your armor being magical (at the +1 level) (I'm presuming "item is magical" has mechanical benefits in a few cases), but after that the cheap version (-1 AC) has the price of the more expensive version with 1 less plus. Wearing a +2 item with 1 less AC is flavor compared to the +1 higher tier item.

"Woo my armor is magical, but no better than a higher tier mundane" is priced at 500 gp in the above chart (regardless of how much the higher tier armor costs).

Bulky (disadvantage on stealth) is worth +1 AC, but also bumps prices up a bit. This is both reflected in the mundane prices and in the magic item prices.

Heavy armor has 3 tiers -- cheap medium and expensive. For heavy armor, cheap/medium has a lower str requirement, so the same AC as the heavy version (full plate) costs more by a factor of 2 to 3.

Someone in bulky medium armor with 14 dex pays 25% more than someone with 13 strength in heavy armor for the same AC.

Someone in magical full plate with 15 strength pays 50% more than someone in expensive medium bulky with 14 dex for 1 more AC. For the same AC, they pay 16% to 50% of the price, as they can get it 1 plus lower.

This means that Mithral needs to be expensive. Any fixed amount added will make it a bargain at certain points, or way over priced. Maybe 5x price?

Mithral full plate (no strength requirement, no bulk) at +1 is then 15000 gp for 19 AC. To pull off 18 AC with 14 dex in medium is you need +2 expensive gear, so 15000 gp. "Heavy armor proficiency" and "+1 AC" vs "14 dex" is a decent tradeoff I think.

OTOH, anything but full plate in heavy mithral is over priced, as the difference between 13 and 15 str requirement no longer matters. Possibly Mithral X armor should have its own rows, rather than a raw multiplier.

So you'd have specific items:

Mithral Chain Shirt (14+2 dex AC, requires no armor proficiency)
Mithral Breastplate (15+2 dex AC, requires light armor proficiency)
Mithral Chainmail (16 AC, no bulk, requires light armor proficiency)
Mithral Half Plate (17 AC, no str, requires medium armor proficiency)
Mithral Heavy Plate (18 AC, no str, no bulk)
as special suits of armor, and work out what their price should be in the above matrix.

(Mithral then drops any stealth penalties, and effectively reduces your stat requirements to hit an AC target.)
 

Xeviat

Hero
So this pricing pattern has the problem that it makes having heavy armor proficiency pretty damn useless.

You get the same AC for the same amount of gp as someone without that class feature.

Higher armor proficiencies should be useful.
Having medium and heavy armor proficiency means you can "spend" less "character points" on Dex to achieve the same AC. 14 Dex is still an investment for a Cleric or other medium armor character who has other stats they may be caring about first.

Light armor wearer's weapon users often start with a 16 Dex and push it to 20 at 4 and 8. But, with point buy, a 14 is pricey. In my experience, a character's 2nd highest score ends up going into their class/subclass secondary stat (Cha for paladin, for instance), or Con.
 

So this pricing pattern has the problem that it makes having heavy armor proficiency pretty damn useless.

You get the same AC for the same amount of gp as someone without that class feature.
I had thought that there might be variations in rarity for (for example) a baseline full plate vs a +3 chain shirt, but it turns out that that's not the case.

It seems rarity is set to also correspond to AC total (with appropriate Dex adjustments). For example, everything that costs about 2000 GP (18 AC) is rare. Other price tiers are similarly homogeneous.

ACPriceRarity
1550Common?
16150Common-Uncommon
17500Uncommon
182,000Rare
198,000Very Rare
2032,000Legendary
2196,000Legendary

Medium armor proficiency should then give 15-16 AC, with the advantage you only need 14 dex instead of 20. (Note here I didn't give a full +1 AC at the top end).

With disadvantage on stealth, that should be 16-17 AC.
Not sure how you're getting to 17 AC with medium armor. That would require a base AC of 15 (which I see you use again later in the post), which only half plate had, and half plate got moved to heavy armor. The base ACs for medium armor only cover 13-14, and adding +2 Dex only gives 15-16.

I'm also really not sure I follow what you're trying to explain with having each proficiency level be "worth" +1 AC.


I feel like a lot of your post was going into your own personal design, rather than making a clean argument about what I wrote, or even what the designers intended. I'm not sure you even actually expect a response from me, since it seems to be more an argument about the current design.


Considering how AC optimization is balanced against the cost of buying Dex, I feel like pricing things for target AC is mostly fair. There is the position that heavy armor may not be getting as much of an AC advantage as might be desired for the stereotypical knight in shining armor, but even that may not be a bad thing when you figure on trying to balance encounters against the party's AC. If the party tends mostly towards a common AC based on accumulated wealth, it may be easier to design encounters that don't have to factor in a single party member's extreme AC.

It seems like there are lots of factors that could go into designing the AC balance, much more than I could cogently comment on at this time. For the time being, I'm still OK with the current design.
 

Faolyn

(she/her)
Alright, stupid question time, but: shouldn't the armor's pricing be dependent on the cost of materials and labor involved and not the AC it grants?
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Alright, stupid question time, but: shouldn't the armor's pricing be dependent on the cost of materials and labor involved and not the AC it grants?
You have folks who like a simulationist approach like that, and you have folks who like a 'gamist' approach where numbers are balanced against each other. Whichever you choose, 50% of people will disagree with you! :)
 

tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Epic
Alright, stupid question time, but: shouldn't the armor's pricing be dependent on the cost of materials and labor involved and not the AC it grants?
have you ever personally been involved in pricing the raw materials & labor required for that in a fantasy world where magic is a fact? The better cloth/leather armors might need cloth made from planar infused cotton/silk woven with durability enchantments... metal armor takes more labor sure but metal can come right out of a mine & go straight to the smelter for someone to work the resulting bars.
 

Faolyn

(she/her)
have you ever personally been involved in pricing the raw materials & labor required for that in a fantasy world where magic is a fact? The better cloth/leather armors might need cloth made from planar infused cotton/silk woven with durability enchantments... metal armor takes more labor sure but metal can come right out of a mine & go straight to the smelter for someone to work the resulting bars.
And that would be factored into "materials and labor."
 

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