Magic Items and Dispel Magic

[hong]

Following the Dispel Magic version from the SRD, you're wrong:

[...]

The boots don't cast Haste, they create an effect similar to it...

However, the PHB _also_ says "dispel magic can dispel (but not counter) the ongoing effects of supernatural abilities as well as spells". Now if you look at the possible ways in which you can use dispel magic (targeted, area effect, or counterspell), none of these explicitly mention supernatural effects. There are thus two possible conclusions:

1) the spell actually doesn't work on supernatural effects at all, the bit to the contrary notwithstanding; or

2) the spell does work, but they forgot to mention supernatural effects when describing targeted and area dispels.

Given that the DMG also explicitly says supernatural effects can be dispelled (see the errata), I'm inclined to go with 2).

 

[IceBear]

I'm with hong

Strange, after almost ALWAYS disagreeing with hong in the past, in the last few months I almost always agree with him now. Is the End 'nigh?

IceBear

 

[dcollins]

Since dispel magic will dispel not just spells but also spell-like and supernatural effects, I think the question is moot.

I don't see how that's relevant. No one is suggesting that magic items are spell-like or supernatural abilities. They are, instead, magic items, which are treated distinctly by dispel magic.

 

[IceBear]

Well, what are effects from magic items then? In my mind, they are either spell or spell-like effects. Boots of Speed are either casting haste on you, or cause a haste-like effect (for all intents and purposes).

If a monter could haste itself as a spell-like ability, at will, as often as it wanted, I see little difference between that and Boots of Speed.

IceBear

 

[Dark Dragon]

However, the PHB _also_ says "dispel magic can dispel (but not counter) the ongoing effects of supernatural abilities as well as spells". Now if you look at the possible ways in which you can use dispel magic (targeted, area effect, or counterspell), none of these explicitly mention supernatural effects. There are thus two possible conclusions:

1) the spell actually doesn't work on supernatural effects at all, the bit to the contrary notwithstanding; or

2) the spell does work, but they forgot to mention supernatural effects when describing targeted and area dispels.

Given that the DMG also explicitly says supernatural effects can be dispelled (see the errata), I'm inclined to go with 2).

Ok, that convinces me (although I was unaware of the errata; anyway, I learned something new ).

 

[dcollins]

Well, what are effects from magic items then? In my mind, they are either spell or spell-like effects. Boots of Speed are either casting haste on you, or cause a haste-like effect (for all intents and purposes).

You won't find any support for that in the rulebooks. Magic items are magic items, regardless of whether they are activated all the time or part of the time. And an area dispel magic does not affect magic items.

They're not special abilities of any sort, they're permanent magic items.

 

[AuraSeer]

They're not special abilities of any sort, they're permanent magic items.

Except when they're not permanent?

 

[kreynolds]

Except when they're not permanent?

Do you mean the duration of the effect? What does that have to do with the magic item though? It's still a magic item.

 

[IceBear]

Ok, let's look at the Anti-Magic Field from the SRD

An invisible barrier surrounds the character and moves with the character. The space within this barrier is impervious to most magical effects, including spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. Likewise, it prevents the functioning of any magic items or spells within its confines.

The last sentence states that magic items and spells don't function within the confines, so that seems to suggest that they might be different (though I think they just stated that for clarity). The second sentence would imply, if we say that effects from magic items are not spell-like, spells, or supernatural abilities, that an effect from a magic item could pass into it. Remember, the last sentence just states that a magic item wouldn't *function* in there (which I take to mean, can't be activated). The first states that no magical effect (spells, spell-like, and supernatural)would work in the area.

It's my opinion that they have classified all effects in the game as one of the following - natural (Ha!), Ex, Sp, or Su. There isn't some fifth classification called magic item effects. If a magic item simulates a spell effect, then it's a spell-like effect. If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, and walks like a duck, it's probably a duck.

IceBear

 

[kreynolds]

If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, and feels like a duck, it's probably a duck.

Go around feeling a lot of ducks, do you?