Magic items in Keep on the Borderlands

[TerraDave]

The PCs in my campaing have just entered Homlet, and I have been using parts of T1, along with the newer material. For a tiny village, that place has plenty of magic items, and anybody worth there salt is carrying a couple! (and the PCs may get some from the NPCs who try to backstab them at some point--a key part of the adventure).

Older modules tended to be loaded. Running 1st edition modules in a housed ruled/2nd edition campaign I found myself ratcheting down treasure pretty heavily. Of course, in 1st ed AD&D at least, you where supposed to train for new levels, and that was very expensive. As with so much of the DMG, this tended to be overlooked.

But the vampirous flying mouse if right, 3rd edition just clarified something long true: D&D is a high magic (item) game.

 

[smootrk]

Overloaded with wand of paralyzation with only 7 charges.... wand of Enemy Detections with 9 charges... Potions of Stone to Flesh when there is Medusa in a 1-3rd level module... amulets of protection from "good"... amulets of protection from turning... Helm of Opposite Alignment...
Much too overpowering? And how much do you think the characters could sell some of this stuff for, and sell to who.... the other evil temple down the street for the amulets? Most good characters should want much of this loot destroyed. It would be easy for me as DM to minimize the impact of the majority of items listed, and even the armor/shields could be changed to other types easily so that balance can be maintained.
Just what kind of definitive guidebook for balanced campaigns do you expect from Basic D&D module from 1980? This module isn't even compatable with the AD&D Player's Handbook or DMG of the time.
Now, a few of the items seem outrageous (Staff of Healing comes to mind) but how hard is it to adjust slightly for your individual campaign group?

I don't suggest looking to Basic D&D for game balance (or even the definitive Expert Set), as it was designed as a introduction to the whole gaming scene with AD&D... a marketing method to bring in more individuals and give them a taste fantasy gaming.

 

[rogueattorney]

Would you say3rd level in 1e/OD&D was about equal to 6th level in 3e in terms of tme taken to reach it? So really this is a 1-6 module in 3e...

In terms of time to advance, yeah, I'd say that's about right.

Also people have to remember the relative power levels of pc's in OD&D. Even taking into acount the tougher 3e monsters, characters are far more fragile in OD&D when playing BtB:
1. Fewer hp, lower HD base (d4 for thieves, d6 for clerics, d8 for fighters) and no max hp at 1st level.
2. 0hp = dead
3. Very limited access to healing spells: No clerical spells at 1st level, a 3rd level cleric would have at most 2 CLW's
4. Save or die Poison

This all justifies the presence of magic items from a game play-standpoint, risk equalling reward. Also it ensures that those magic items will be spread out amongst even more pc's as pc's die and what items they have are unrecovered.

I've played and DM'ed B2 probably a dozen times over the last 20 years, and being over-magic'ed has never been a problem. And I am a DM who's sensitive to that kind of thing.

R.A.

 

[S'mon]

BTW GMing 3e module Lost City of Barakus I find I have to _add_ treasure - I don't think dragons should have only copper...

 

[Numion]

There was more magic gear in old school because (IMO) characters were much weaker and had less options. They needed the gear to not die, it made them more powerful in small incremental changes. Now you can rack n' stack and have uber characters at 5th level with no gear at all. That's why magic is such a focus point in 3.e, it can really make a powerful character unbalancing. 3.e is much more complex and you can't give the players access to large amounts of hardware or they'll cheese out.

Now this is a new one. It's been long argued on these boards that magic gear is much more essential for 3e than pre-3e PCs. Are you saying the opposite, that pre-3e characters are those that need the gear?

 

[Numion]

BTW GMing 3e module Lost City of Barakus I find I have to _add_ treasure - I don't think dragons should have only copper...

I recently bought that adventure, and it looks very nice. As to your comment, are you aware that they suggest 50% experience awards? If they did it 'right' there should also be half the loot .. I haven't checked this, but that might be the reason for missing loot.

Copper dragons hoard nowithstanding, of course

 

[S'mon]

I recently bought that adventure, and it looks very nice. As to your comment, are you aware that they suggest 50% experience awards? If they did it 'right' there should also be half the loot .. I haven't checked this, but that might be the reason for missing loot.

Copper dragons hoard nowithstanding, of course

Yeah, I give 1/2 XP, but the hoards seem to have less than 50% standard treasure.

Edit: I have the problem that I want the place sufficiently lucrative that PCs are motivated to dare its dangers!

 

[diaglo]

The PCs in my campaing have just entered Homlet, and I have been using parts of T1, along with the newer material. For a tiny village, that place has plenty of magic items, and anybody worth there salt is carrying a couple! (and the PCs may get some from the NPCs who try to backstab them at some point--a key part of the adventure).

Older modules tended to be loaded. Running 1st edition modules in a housed ruled/2nd edition campaign I found myself ratcheting down treasure pretty heavily. Of course, in 1st ed AD&D at least, you where supposed to train for new levels, and that was very expensive. As with so much of the DMG, this tended to be overlooked.

But the vampirous flying mouse if right, 3rd edition just clarified something long true: D&D is a high magic (item) game.

1edADnD is a whole nother animal.

training at 1500gp per week per level... and a minimum of 1 week if you roleplayed really well. meant the loot was spent or traded for training.

the guys buliding the castle Rufus and Burne plus Canoness Y'dey, Terjon, and Otis and Elmo and Jaroo and Gremag and so on... all had levels and had items...

some of them were near name level ... for training purposes...

 

[Numion]

1edADnD is a whole nother animal.

training at 1500gp per week per level... and a minimum of 1 week if you roleplayed really well. meant the loot was spent or traded for training.

This doesn't really answer about the magic items .. traded how? From what I've heard, you cant sell or trade magic items in 1E

It seems the nostalgia side has a bit of a selective memory about their favorite edition. Magic items can be traded when it suits the argument ..

 

[diaglo]

This doesn't really answer about the magic items .. traded how? From what I've heard, you cant sell or trade magic items in 1E

It seems the nostalgia side has a bit of a selective memory about their favorite edition. Magic items can be traded when it suits the argument ..

traded to your mentor.

PC: i fought and killed an Ogre. all he had was this fine sword with ancient scratchings on its hilt. will this be enough for me to seek further skill in arms with you, Lord Bob?

LB: sure. throw in the teeth and the hard cheese you got in that moldy sack and you've got yourself an instructor for a week.