I noticed that rolling up a random NPC by the methods in the 1e DMG, they almost always have far more magical wealth than a 3e NPC. I think 3e is higher-magic because so many spells were added that change the game from the 1e/2e paradigm, in 3e you literally _can_ do anything with magic. Plus they changed the demographics so PCs could expect to be adventuring in the 11th-20th range rather than retiring ca 9th. In 1e high-level spells were mostly for NPCs. The ease of item manufacture in 3e is also a factor, especially the "flaming shock vorpal +1 greatsword" and "+5 heavy fortifed full plate of Fire/Lightning/Cold Resistance" and the way all high level characters are loaded down with trinkets in every 'slot'.
Magic items in Keep on the Borderlands
- Thread starter Quasqueton
- Start date
diaglo
Adventurer
Detect Magic is a 1st lvl spell ?
who can cast spells and how many?
what about identify? just b/c the PCs may or most probably did not find the item doesn't mean they know what it does. nor do they have a way to find out.
how many pearls in the adventure?
identify wasn't even a spell then for 2edD&D or 3edD&D if you bought it later.
who can cast spells and how many?
what about identify? just b/c the PCs may or most probably did not find the item doesn't mean they know what it does. nor do they have a way to find out.
how many pearls in the adventure?
identify wasn't even a spell then for 2edD&D or 3edD&D if you bought it later.
Quasqueton
First Post
So, are y'all suggesting that the module had 50 magic items (to pick a number) so the PCs would end up with 10? The designers (EGG in this case) "overstocked" the dungeon with magic knowing the PCs wouldn't actually end up with most of it?
At least half of the listed items were to be found as "treasure", something obviously begging for a detect magic hairy eyeball. Another large portion was found on BBEGs who never failed to get the detect magic search.
Even if no one used detect magic, you *always* automatically took and used the weapon of a fallen BBEG, or an item found as "treasure". And what does identify have to do with it? No PC ever failed to use the magic handaxe regardless that he didn't know exactly it's plus.
But even if none of the items got taken and used by PCs, you have to admit, that's a big list of magic in a fairly minor dungeon (in the campaign-scale sense). And like I said, even though the PCs weren't expected to get the items in the keep itself, it is an example to the DM of the level of magic item prevalence in the world.
Quasqueton
At least half of the listed items were to be found as "treasure", something obviously begging for a detect magic hairy eyeball. Another large portion was found on BBEGs who never failed to get the detect magic search.
Even if no one used detect magic, you *always* automatically took and used the weapon of a fallen BBEG, or an item found as "treasure". And what does identify have to do with it? No PC ever failed to use the magic handaxe regardless that he didn't know exactly it's plus.
But even if none of the items got taken and used by PCs, you have to admit, that's a big list of magic in a fairly minor dungeon (in the campaign-scale sense). And like I said, even though the PCs weren't expected to get the items in the keep itself, it is an example to the DM of the level of magic item prevalence in the world.
Quasqueton
diaglo
Adventurer
Quasqueton said:
yes.
why do you think the BBEG weren't using them. and had them set aside. they didn't know what they were either. or were afraid to use them.. see the next answer.
cursed items? don't tell me you never had players back away from using an item.
sure, it gives the DM an idea of what magic to use for nonencounters.
der_kluge
Adventurer
I think what would be awesome (a good weekend project for someone) is to provide a breakdown of the number of magic items, by module level (average for the level; so a module for characters 5-7 would be 6th), by edition.
That would be uber-cool.
I'd do it, but I don't own very many modules.
That would be uber-cool.
I'd do it, but I don't own very many modules.
Quasqueton
First Post
I own the modules, but I don't have the time. I'll do some other modules when I can.
Quasqueton
Henry
Autoexreginated
I did a similar breakdown of D1-D2 (descent into the Depths) on Dragonsfoot about two years ago in their Edition Wars forum -- and promptly got a bunch of people upset with me because they were currently RUNNING said adventure. 
I did it when someone did a breakdown of Nightfang Spire to prove that that module was magic-item heavy.
Looking at the old modules, they were no more or less magic-heavy than the current modules, it's just that the perception seems to be this way because PCs do have greater control over what magic items they have available to them in 3E. In 1E and 2E, byt its nature magic was strictly controlled by the DM, who could be as accomodating or not as he desired. I don't have a problem with either play style (very accomodating a la 3E or more restrictive a la previous editions) but the very existance of such a style means people with perceive it as more generous.
I did it when someone did a breakdown of Nightfang Spire to prove that that module was magic-item heavy.Looking at the old modules, they were no more or less magic-heavy than the current modules, it's just that the perception seems to be this way because PCs do have greater control over what magic items they have available to them in 3E. In 1E and 2E, byt its nature magic was strictly controlled by the DM, who could be as accomodating or not as he desired. I don't have a problem with either play style (very accomodating a la 3E or more restrictive a la previous editions) but the very existance of such a style means people with perceive it as more generous.
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