Magic Items that lost their magic

Though here's a question: if you take out the magical item economy, what would gold be used for? That's pretty much the only thing that you can buy, outside of alchemical items.

Well, you could make the world have an actually sensible economy.

Equipment repair costs. Transportation. Living expenses. Henchmen. Strongholds and such.

If you remove magic items from the equation, you can make the amount of money the party comes across into a reasonable amount for the setting.

I mean, 3 million gold for a sword? Seriously? When the average laborer earns, what, 1 sp or 1 gp a day? Something there is just not right.
 

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I mean, 3 million gold for a sword? Seriously? When the average laborer earns, what, 1 sp or 1 gp a day? Something there is just not right.

Nice hyperbole. What's your point? That the average laborer should ever be close to being able to buy a +6 sword? Because in the real world, there are certainly no luxury items that average people can never even come close to purchasing....
 

Well, you could make the world have an actually sensible economy.

Equipment repair costs. Transportation. Living expenses. Henchmen. Strongholds and such.
Yeah, but I'm no economist, and I abhore bookkeeping. I don't even make my PCs track their ammo and rations, because I assume their characters will make sure they have what they need.
 

So, has anyone done up an Artifact style writeup for the classic 1e version of the gauntlet of ogre power or better yet how would you writeup the trifecta - gauntlets, belt and hammer?

As an aside, what's your favourite artifact in the 4e writeup? I got to go with WHELM from Open Grave....
 


I disagree. The internet only enables faster communication between distant groups of gamers. It's up to an individual to allow such communication to ruin thier D&D.

As a general rule, people are lemnings - if they read on the interweb that X class is broken, they will believe it, even if there has never been an issue before.

When I say that the internet has ruined D&D, I am saying that I think it did a lot more bad than good, at least for many people. Luckily for me, it has never been an issue for our group, since most of my players never visit D&D boards.
 

So, has anyone done up an Artifact style writeup for the classic 1e version of the gauntlet of ogre power or better yet how would you writeup the trifecta - gauntlets, belt and hammer?

Here is a shot at it:

[sblock=Gauntlets of Ogre Power]
Gauntlets of Ogre Power Heroic Level
Large gauntlets made from tanned ogre hide.
Body Slot: Hands
Property: Your Strength score rises to 18 (if higher, there is no change).
Prower (at-will, martial): Standard action. You smash someone with your fists. Make a melee attack using Strength +2 vs. AC; on a hit, you deal 1d6 + Strength modifier damage. This attack is considered a melee basic attack.

Goals:
  • To show how strong the gauntlets make the wearer
  • To kill, maim, and do violence in general
  • To cow all others into bowing down before the wearer

Roleplaying:
The Gauntlets of Ogre Power are the classic bully: they can't stand weakness, they enjoy pushing around anyone weaker than them, and they like to show off.

CONCORDANCE
Code:
Starting Score.....................................5
Owner is humanoid (half-orc, goblin, gnoll, etc.)..+1
Owner murders someone with his bare hands (max 
 once per day).....................................+1
Owner wields a blunt, crushing weapon..............+1
Owner wields no weapon or implement at all.........+2
Owner beats the tar out of someone higher on the
 social ladder, taking their position..............+2
Owner wields a sharp stabbing or slashing weapon...-1
Owner is a dwarf or elf............................-1
Owner avoids the chance for bloodshed..............-1
Owner avoids showing off his strength..............-2
Owner turns down a challenge involving strength....-2
Owner ignores the opportunity to bully a much
 weaker creature...................................-2
Owner is ordered or commanded to do something, and
 does not immediately attack in response...........-2

All the above stack.

Pleased (16-20)
"I am the strongest man in the world! What are you looking at? You want to go? Sissy."
The Gauntlets are pleased with the wearer's willingness to bully the weak.
Property: The wearer's Strength score rises to 22 (if higher, there is no change).
Power (encounter, martial): Standard action. Requires a boulder or some other large object. Make a ranged 5/10 attack using Strength +2 vs. Reflex. On a hit, the target takes 3d8 + Strength modifier damage, is pushed 3 squares, and falls prone.
Power (encounter, fear): Minor action. Make a close burst 5 attack using Strength vs. Will against all enemies in the burst. On a hit, the target suffers a -2 penalty to attack rolls until the end of your next turn.
Power (daily): Standard action. Make a melee attack using Strength vs. Fortitude against a wall, pillar, or other construction. On a hit, you destroy the construction with a roar. Your DM will determine the effects.

Satisfied (12-15)
"You guys are all such wimps compared to me."
The Gauntlets see a lot of potential for self-affirming violence in the wearer.
Property: The wearer's Strength score rises to 20 (if higher, there is no change).
Power (encounter, martial): Standard action. Make a melee attack using Strength +2 vs. Fortitude. On a hit, the target takes 2d6 + Strength modifier damage and is Grabbed. Sustain minor; grabbed targets only: With a minor action, you can choke or squeeze the life out of the target, dealing 10 damage. Special: At least one hand must be free to use this power.

Normal (5-11)
"I feel so strong and powerful when I put these on."
The Guantlets give the wearer some portion of their power, but they are always on the lookout for someone who will rise to the top of the heap.

Unsatisfied (1-4)
"These gauntlets think I'm weak... and I'm starting to agree."
.
Property: The wearer takes a -2 penalty to Athletics checks.
Property: The wearer's Strength score is reduced by 2.
Special: Once per encounter, at any time, the Gauntlets drop everything in your hands and clench into fists (save ends).

Angered (0 or lower)
""
.
Property: You take a -5 penalty to Athletics and Acrobatics checks.
Property: Your Strength score is reduced by 6.
Special: Once per encounter, when you are first bloodied, the Gauntlets punch you in the face! The Gauntlets make an attack against your Fortitude defense, rolling 1d20 + your level. If the attack hits, you take 2d6+6 damage.
[/sblock]
 


Nice hyperbole. What's your point? That the average laborer should ever be close to being able to buy a +6 sword? Because in the real world, there are certainly no luxury items that average people can never even come close to purchasing....

I don't think you know what hyperbole means, because there are indeed weapons in the PH that cost 3 million gp. I know I'm poking at your favorite game and all, but at least make sense when you try to defend it.

You're right, the average laborer shouldn't be able to afford a "+6 sword" (which has a value that is hard to quantify, IMO, due to the lack of information as to what, exactly, "+6" means in terms of materials required and such). Heck, the average laborer really shouldn't be able to afford any magical item of any degree.

However, the problem is that the gap between what the laborer can afford and the cost of the weapon in question (+6, in this case) is ridiculous. Going off of what an average laborer earns a day, you can begin constructing a reasonable economy based off of that - how much food will generally cost, of varying qualities; how much various materials will cost; and so forth. This isn't even getting into adjusting these values based upon how common they are in a given location, but you see what I'm getting at.

At no point, with the model I'm talking about, do you reach a point where 3 million gold becomes an even vaguely reasonable cost for an item. Even if an individual were to charge that amount, there would be no one capable of buying it.

It's a question of scaling. 4e uses a somewhat exponential system to determine costs of things. I don't think that's fair or reasonable, and IMO sets up a wholly unrealistic economy, to the point of being completely and utterly untenable if you try to deal with things outside of the PH - if you try to make the prices of things like strongholds meaningful to the PCs (ie, it's not just a drop in the bucket), the costs become so outrageous that no one else in the world could afford them.

Rechan said:
Yeah, but I'm no economist, and I abhore bookkeeping. I don't even make my PCs track their ammo and rations, because I assume their characters will make sure they have what they need.

I'd say that any system that wanted to have a reasonable economy should make it fairly easy to keep track of these things; you're right, most DMs aren't economists and aren't going to want to do a lot of bookkeeping. My group is probably a little strange that we are greatly concerned about a lot of these kinds of things; we once spent an hour or so (in the middle of a game) discussing economics in 3.5, and how unreasonable that system was, which was part of what made me decide that 3.5 was not the game for me.

As for ammo and rations... I rather like making PCs keep track of these things, and I'd like an economic system that ensures that the costs of these items stays at least somewhat relevant. In my mind, the fantastic needs to be grounded in reality, or else it loses something.

Yes, you can go to the mountains to kill the dragon there, but you'll need to make sure you have enough food, water, and ammo, and supplies to fix your wagon if it breaks down on the way there or back...
 

At no point, with the model I'm talking about, do you reach a point where 3 million gold becomes an even vaguely reasonable cost for an item. Even if an individual were to charge that amount, there would be no one capable of buying it.
I'm not positive, but are you limiting your model to a standard medieval society? I haven't participated in an epic-level D&D game thus-far, but of those I've read about, you tend to expand beyond the base society at those levels.

A noble or even a king may not be able to spend 3 million gold on a magic sword...but perhaps a Hound Archon could purchase one from the City of Brass, etc. etc.
 

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