Magic Items that lost their magic

[C_M2008]

Though here's a question: if you take out the magical item economy, what would gold be used for? That's pretty much the only thing that you can buy, outside of alchemical items.

There's always Roleplaying things, like houses and keeps and such.

That raises the question of why PCs need to be rewarded with gold all the time? Surely the occassional magic item a few coins, some praise(or terror) and the experience are reason enough?

 

[Drkfathr1]

Though here's a question: if you take out the magical item economy, what would gold be used for? That's pretty much the only thing that you can buy, outside of alchemical items.

Ale and whores.

 

[AllisterH]

Though here's a question: if you take out the magical item economy, what would gold be used for? That's pretty much the only thing that you can buy, outside of alchemical items.

True, which is why my step 4 is optional...I distinctly remember pre 3.x games where we would find thousands of gp and not give a care in the world since you couldn't really buy anything you consider useful.

There's also something I don't think many people realize about the 4e treasure system.

Someone on the WOTC board actually did the math for the treasure parcels and compared it and noticed that even if the treasure lists were totally randomized, the party would not be ADVERSELY affected.

So instead of everyone having the +3 longsword of their choice if you let players request certain magic items, they could have the +2 longsword of their choice OR the +3 random magic item.

In effect, you get the best of both worlds...the thrill of magic items being special since they will be "more powerful" than your level when you get them AND the customization option if you are willing to forego a little power.

Contray to popular belief, a character that is wielding a longsword +2 instead of a +3 is NOT a gimped character...Frankly, you're not going to notice it over the course of an encounter due to the numbr of rolls made...

 

[gizmo33]

When trying to be snarky, make sure you do not look foolish . The devs have indeed stated on two seperate occasions that the + items where left in the game for bovine reasons. One of the places was an online article, the other a post iirc.

Foolish about what? I would think that statments like that would be plainly against the board rules.

I told you what it was I didn't know. You still haven't identified where this came from, or anything that lets someone who doesn't know the context make any sense of it in terms of game design.

The thing that's setting off my bs detector is that "sacred cow" is a perjorative term. It suggests to me that the designers included something that they knew wouldn't make for a good game. For what reason? Since when did the 4E people give two hoots about anything in prior editions? Why would they admit to comprimising on their principles without an explanation?

I'm being skeptical, not snarky. There are lots of people on this board making unsubstantiated pronouncements about what 4E should and shouldn't be. And like you, they may or may not be right but I think it's sensible to expect a little substance (I don't mean restating what you said and adding the word "indeed" to the end). I often suspect that these rememberances that people have are filtered through a layer of interpretation. Saying "I remember seeing it somewhere" is fine for your purposes I suppose, but I see no harm in asking for sources on things that you're claiming were said by someone else.

The other thing about context: I remember one instance of the devs not agreeing on an issue. The case I remember was character death and dying rules. So the opinion of a single dev about a certain rule that was kept in the game may not be the final word on what the other devs thought or what it all really means.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Though here's a question: if you take out the magical item economy, what would gold be used for? That's pretty much the only thing that you can buy, outside of alchemical items.

This is one reason I have gotten rid of gold and instead have a very, very loose and easily reimagined "Resource" amount. It goes from 1-5. One being you can just make ends meat and such. 2-5 varies for each campaign if it is in a rich area, then perhaps 5 is your own airship, in another it means you can actually live inside the town, etc.

I also like that since Resource is fairly open it can be whatever you wish. You find out some juicy info, then that is a Resource point, you gain the favour/letter from a ruler that is another Resource point. As well as normal treasure and such.

As such Resources becomes more a plot-tool and such and less a means to gain power, or equipment.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I mean, thinking that no matter how Strong/Intelligent/whatever you are, that you'd be simply worse off if you didn't have [insert-item-here]. I want to be the strong/intelligent/whatever one. Because of what I am, not because of what I own.

I understand how you feel. Usually I'm not bothered by the phenomenon. After all, even Thor had a magic belt of strength. Sometimes the item is part of the legend.

My only real quibble with the whole thing is that if you want to play a character who's hygienic, he can lose half his powers by having his clothes stolen while he's taking a bath.

But that break in suspension of disbelief aside, I like the magic item system simply because, as a game, it's fun to get stuff. Sure, you could just tack on all the powers of a Holy Avenger onto the character, but then you lose the fun of finding the Lost Sword of St. Argantine buried in the lich-lord's crypt.

Now I suppose one could make a claim that you could still find said Lost Sword, it simply wouldn't have any powers. But speaking from my own experience, what makes for a memorable magic item is the combination of a good backstory and interesting/potent powers. Only one or the other simply doesn't get the job done.

I could go on... but in their effort to make magic items not matter too much, it feels to me like WotC made items not matter at all.

I agree. Magic items seem to have become significantly less potent in this edition of the game. And because of this, it's even more important for DMs to make them special in other ways. Many of us were doing this already, but it's more necessary now since a lot of the time a magic item's powers won't be making anyone "ooh" or "aah" on their own.

Currently I'm leaving magic items as they are. I don't want to mess with the balance at this point. Once I've gained more experience with the new system, I may drop a more potent item into the mix here and there.

 

[Rechan]

There's always Roleplaying things, like houses and keeps and such.

That raises the question of why PCs need to be rewarded with gold all the time? Surely the occassional magic item a few coins, some praise(or terror) and the experience are reason enough?

That depends. Often the motivation for going into a dungeon is the promise of treasure.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

That depends. Often the motivation for going into a dungeon is the promise of treasure.

Hmm... This may be one of the reasons why I haven't run/been playing in a dungeon in years.

 

[Lurks-no-More]

Magic items haven't been "magic" since 2e IMO. Most of the Flavour has been missing since, a failing of the last two editions.

I'm not sure if they were all that more "magical" in 1e, either.

As far as I can tell, a great part of what people want when they complain about magic and/or magic items being "not magical" is unpredictability, and not knowing what something is or what it can do.

This is a tricky thing to want in a game, especially of things that are commonly player-used (like magic).

 

[ferratus]

Yeah, I don't think we want to go back to the way magical items were handled in 2e (arbitrary random qualities) but it was those arbitrary random qualities which made them interesting. Magical items in 3e, and to a greater degree 4e, are much more standardized. Thus it is harder to have wonder when it fits a modular slot of boosting existing character abilities, or providing a single (balanced for level) ability. Part of what made gauntlets of Ogre Power or the Girdle of Giant Strength cool was the fact that you became the strongest man in the world when you wore them. This is always going to have to be sacrificed if you want balance, and if you don't want your character to be all about your gear. Still, it always a hoot for the DM to grab an overpowered and poorly designed magical item off the random treasure table, if only for a little while.

I think though that I might have been a bit harsh on 4e magical items as I go through a lot of the conversions. Most of the wondrous items have carried forward with flavour intact, and those are the ones I like best anyway.

As for what you spend gold on besides magical items... why hirelings and strongholds of course! The neglected and unappreciated third pillar of D&D. We just need to make it easier to fit with adventuring. Instant fortresses, ships, and astral domains are all steps in the right direction.