Magic missile too strong?

[Question]

Has anyone tried spamming MMs as a force missle mage(Dragon compendium) yet?

 

[Mistwell]

Wouldn't an Orb of Force been better? Isn't Evard's Black Tentacles or Ennervation a better overall spell for the level than a magic missle? it's possible to make an effective magic missle artillery character but it doesn't seem like this would dominate compared to other arcane options.

Good spell does not always equal overpowered; just means that it's a nice spell.

Orb of Force and Enervation are both ranged touch attacks. Her dex isn't great, she doesn't have precise shot, and she would be hitting her allies more often than is reasonable. Both are out.

Evard's Black Tentacles would be nice for battlefield control, but again if the opponant is already engaged in combat, it would just hurt allies as well.

Magic Missle is one of those few spells you can use in almost any tactical situation. If you can see the opponant at all, you will damage them unless it's an issue of spell resistance or they have shield up or a magic item that stops magic missles specifically or something like that.

 

[Mistwell]

I agree that Sorcerers are just plain broken in general. You get way more spells, incredible flexability when casting spells, including meta magic flexability. The only down side to playing a sorcerer is that you know fewer spells, which is not that big of a deal, if you do enough research to take the good ones, which in the case, magic missile happens to be....You are making an unfair comparison since you are talking about a broken class. Your typical wizard won't memorize every spell as a hieghtened Magic Missile. It is the Socerers ability to convert other spells into 1st level spells that breaks the spell, not the spell itself.

At the point where I am debating someone who thinks sorcerers are overpowered and "just plain broken", I think the discussion is useless. We are coming from different planets, nay, different galaxies. The mere thought that you think that about sorcerers is so stunning that I don't even think we are writing in the same language. You look like you are speaking English, but the conclusion you draw is so opposite-world that I even doubt my own reading comprehension abilities. One of us must be drunk, and I have to look suspiciously at my diet Squirt Can now and contemplate the odds that the cat tipped some hither-to-unknown tasteless hard liquor in it. Because that old Sherlock Holmes quote comes to mind here, "when you have excluded the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." And it is surely impossible that you think sorcerers are overpowered and broken, particularly relative to the wizard. Hence, however improbable, I must be hallucinating. Therefore allow me to depart and go check my vital statistics, as something here is quite amiss.

That is, unless that something is you.

 

[prosfilaes]

Uh, not sure what you are saying here. Plenty of spells are automatic hits. Almost every evocation and necromancy spells are automatic hits, fireball, lightning bold, cold of cold.

It's gotten to the point where half of my party doesn't care if I catch them in the fireball range; they all have evasion and they aren't going to fail the reflex save. Fireball may not require a to-hit roll, but it's certainly not auto-hit.

 

[Li Shenron]

I agree that Sorcerers are just plain broken in general. You get way more spells, incredible flexability when casting spells, including meta magic flexability. The only down side to playing a sorcerer is that you know fewer spells, which is not that big of a deal, if you do enough research to take the good ones, which in the case, magic missile happens to be.

It really doesn't matter what spell you have, if you can cast it over and over and over, it is good, for the most part.

I didn't mean to say that it's broken, I think not, I think it's balanced in 3.0 and actually quite weak in 3.5 (because of feats and spells nerfing). You are probably one of the very few who think that the Sorcerer is too good

 

[Li Shenron]

The way I knew Magic Missle was overpowered was when our party sorceror, for the first ten levels, used it almost every single combat, usually multiple times

....

When a spell becomes so all-encompassing that you are willing to forget about most of your charaacter's other abilities so that you can zap a person behind cover while they are grappling, then yeah it is probably overpowered.

Well, I've had seen many more characters doing nothing except swinging the same weapon every_single_combat_multiple_times than sorcerers doing the same with MM. But you don't think that the attack action is overpowered right?

 

[KarinsDad]

You are probably one of the very few who think that the Sorcerer is too good

I too think that Sorcerers (and Warmages) are very good compared to Wizards (I do not think they are broken). That is, if the character takes metamagic feats. If not, then the character is just ok.

 

[irdeggman]

Magic Missile is a very useful spell but due to its limitations it is roughly "balanced" with other spells.

True it "automatically hits" targets that don't have total cover. (Don't forget that part - you have to be able to "see" the target in order to hit it with a magic missile and total cover would negate the line of effect). But a caster only gets 1 missile fer every 2 levels up to a maximum of 5. So a 1st level caster only has so many 1st level spell slots he can use for spells.

The following (very commonly available things at 1st level) will negate a magic missle.

Shield spell

Tower Shield

Smoke stick

So, while it is IMO a "must have" first level spell it is not overpowered in any means.

 

[DM-Rocco]

Orb of Force and Enervation are both ranged touch attacks. Her dex isn't great, she doesn't have precise shot, and she would be hitting her allies more often than is reasonable. Both are out.

Evard's Black Tentacles would be nice for battlefield control, but again if the opponant is already engaged in combat, it would just hurt allies as well.

Magic Missle is one of those few spells you can use in almost any tactical situation. If you can see the opponant at all, you will damage them unless it's an issue of spell resistance or they have shield up or a magic item that stops magic missles specifically or something like that.

I don't6 know why people keep brining up the whole range touch attack things. It is really hard to miss on a touch attack.

And Magic Missile is not always usefull, against multiple targets, it is greatly weakend, in fact, against more then one, some times two, a good fireball is much better. However, yes, if you are always fighting 4 hit point orcs or 2 hit point kobolds, sure, it becomes better, but even then, a good fireball will kill more.

 

[Quasqueton]

Eldritch Blast is a ranged touch attack.

Yes, I know that much. But what is the damage by level for the EB? Does its damage make up for its miss chance, compared to MM? And the fact that it is unlimited, versus the sorcerer's limited spell slots? A sorcerer has at most 7 MM per day (not counting using higher level slots), for 17.5 damage a round. With a 50% chance to hit, a warlock would need a 10d6 EB to equal the damage per round, for unlimited times.

I don't know how a warlock's EB scales up. I'm just asking that someone look at the comparison closer than just resting the whole thing on "ranged touch attack". I'm not saying EB equals or betters MM, I'm just thinking it deserves some attention, rather than being dismissed off hand.

Quasqueton