Magic missile too strong?

[Mark Chance]

The rate at which a thing becomes overpowered or unbalanced increases as the DM's competence decreases.

 

[KarinsDad]

The following (very commonly available things at 1st level) will negate a magic missle.

Shield spell

Tower Shield

Smoke stick

So, while it is IMO a "must have" first level spell it is not overpowered in any means.

These types of arguments are not very helpful.

Yes, all of these COULD apply. But, examine each one at first level:

1) If an opponent Wizard or Sorcerer has cast a Shield spell, then he is not casting an offensive spell. He is taking away the advantage that he has (offensive spells) in order to do what? Fight with a weapon and a Shield spell? Sure, this might happen once in a blue moon, but it will be rare and even if he casts Shield, there might be a good chance that enemy spell casters might use Spellcraft to determine that, tell their allied arcane caster, and he can still use Magic Missile on a different opponent.

2) Tower Shield. It does not matter that this can give total cover. It does not protect against targeted spells (read the description of a Tower Shield), hence, the caster can Magic Missile someone hiding behind it all he wants.

3) Smoke Stick. At 20 GP a pop, this is an expensive way at low level to delay a Magic Missile spell. Plus, it is not very effective. It is the same as a Fog Cloud, but with a 10 foot radius. That means that no matter where a character stands within it, he is visible (with 20% concealment) from half of the battlefield. Walk around the smoke, cast Magic Missile. It also only lasts for a round at full effect, so at best it is a delaying tactic. It will not really protect against Magic Missile.

 

[DM-Rocco]

At the point where I am debating someone who thinks sorcerers are overpowered and "just plain broken", I think the discussion is useless. We are coming from different planets, nay, different galaxies. The mere thought that you think that about sorcerers is so stunning that I don't even think we are writing in the same language. You look like you are speaking English, but the conclusion you draw is so opposite-world that I even doubt my own reading comprehension abilities. One of us must be drunk, and I have to look suspiciously at my diet Squirt Can now and contemplate the odds that the cat tipped some hither-to-unknown tasteless hard liquor in it. Because that old Sherlock Holmes quote comes to mind here, "when you have excluded the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." And it is surely impossible that you think sorcerers are overpowered and broken, particularly relative to the wizard. Hence, however improbable, I must be hallucinating. Therefore allow me to depart and go check my vital statistics, as something here is quite amiss.

That is, unless that something is you.

Well, Sorcerers are over powered. If they coundn't convert higher levels spells into lower ones no one would play one. There is a reason it is a variant rule to spontaneously cast cleric domain spells, cause it is broken. Just like spell points, and yes, even psionics (but don't get me started on that).

So, I agree, you are drunk, I'll call AA and tell them you'll be in later for a meeting. I'll also call the Beddy Ford clinic
cause you are smoking somthing other than Kools.

 

[DM-Rocco]

It's gotten to the point where half of my party doesn't care if I catch them in the fireball range; they all have evasion and they aren't going to fail the reflex save. Fireball may not require a to-hit roll, but it's certainly not auto-hit.

There are very few classes that offer evasion, so this would just be an example of your characters front loading your game with oneof the best anti magic abilities in the game. Either that or you have a mere band of rogues, either way, the party seems unbalanced from whatyou are telling me.

 

[irdeggman]

2) Tower Shield. It does not matter that this can give total cover. It does not protect against targeted spells (read the description of a Tower Shield), hence, the caster can Magic Missile someone hiding behind it all he wants.

I thought of that at first but then read the description for magic missile and tower shield again.

Magic missile can not target objects so it can't be used against an opponent using a tower shield for full cover.

 

[irdeggman]

1) If an opponent Wizard or Sorcerer has cast a Shield spell, then he is not casting an offensive spell. He is taking away the advantage that he has (offensive spells) in order to do what? Fight with a weapon and a Shield spell? Sure, this might happen once in a blue moon, but it will be rare and even if he casts Shield, there might be a good chance that enemy spell casters might use Spellcraft to determine that, tell their allied arcane caster, and he can still use Magic Missile on a different opponent.

Well since the most likely target to fall becasue of a 1st level magic missile spell is indeed a sorcerer or wizard, this is indeed a great protective measure.

Other classes can withstand the damage from a 1st level magic missile (2-5) fairly easily. After the first one they retaliate and then the caster (a sorcerer or wizard) has to suffer the damge from something that causes more damage. And since they are liekly to have a lower AC than most there is an increased shot of them getting hit.

3) Smoke Stick. At 20 GP a pop, this is an expensive way at low level to delay a Magic Missile spell. Plus, it is not very effective. It is the same as a Fog Cloud, but with a 10 foot radius. That means that no matter where a character stands within it, he is visible (with 20% concealment) from half of the battlefield. Walk around the smoke, cast Magic Missile. It also only lasts for a round at full effect, so at best it is a delaying tactic. It will not really protect against Magic Missile.

Again it is about buying time. A wizard/sorcerer would have to move then cast in order to get past the cover (unless the target stayed within the smoke - always an option). And since we are talking about a low level caster the fact that he has to move will allow someone else to get to him (and target him) easier.

 

[ARandomGod]

MM is too powerful because it's an automatic hit, not because of its damage. There are so few automatic hit spells out there (even 8th-level Polar Ray requires an attack roll).

MM has that weird can't-target-an-object rule:
"Is that thing over there a golem or merely a statue?"
"Dunno. Let's see what MM does..."

Ok. So I don't do that effect quite the same way you seem to. Use the above scenario: MM is cast, a missile streaks towards the statue/golem. Golem is not visibly effected, neither is the statue. I'll make a roll for either one, and I'll let you shoot pretty and ineffective lights at a statue forever if you wish.

Remember force damage is also not resistable and can hit incorporeal enemies with no miss chance. Some creatures have high Touch ACs or are harder to hit because of being in melee (+4 AC). Magic missile is also long range. It's a really good all-around spell with no drawbacks.

Translated: Remember, in certain very specialized circumstances in which a low level fighter OR wizard will certainly die no matter what, MM is a good spell for a high level caster.

Too powerful, not too weak. Your piddly first-level spell makes the fighters look like chumps when fighting incorporeal opponents.

Unless, of course, the fighter is prepared with a ghost touch weapon. Yup.

And I've been there, on both ends. It's a GOOD thing that the mage had MM to deal with that unexpected ghost. And the fighters picked up an alternate sword with a ghost touch enchant, after kicking themselves for selling the one handed out two sessions earlier.


Meh. MM is a good spell, you should pick it up, certainly. But it's not all that great. I've played many a wizard, and I've cast MM only as a small percentage of the spells any of them cast.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I thought of that at first but then read the description for magic missile and tower shield again.

Magic missile can not target objects so it can't be used against an opponent using a tower shield for full cover.

Tower shield says: "The shield does not, however, provide cover against targeted spells; a spellcaster can cast a spell on you by targeting the shield you are holding." This explicitly eliminates a tower shield's cover as protection from targeted spells. Is magic missile targeted? Yes: "Targets: Up to five creatures, no two of which can be more than 15 ft. apart."

QED

 

[Henry]

Yes, I know that much. But what is the damage by level for the EB? Does its damage make up for its miss chance, compared to MM?

Warlocks EB is a ranged touch, doing 1d6 damage per 2 levels, with no save. It's weaker than magic missile, when considering the touch attack issue, but is made versatile by being an unlimited effect, and able to target objects.

I don't6 know why people keep brining up the whole range touch attack things. It is really hard to miss on a touch attack.

Not that hard. Your average mage has - what, a +2 to +7 ranged attack between 1st and 10th level? A touch attack can be anywhere from a 9 to a 16, on average in those levels. This means that a 1st level mage attacking someone with a 9 touch AC will be missing about 35% of the time. even at 9th level, assuming about a +6 bonus to hit, that's still missing % of the time. Very few things in D&D suck as hard as seeing a "1" or a "2" on a to hit roll. A 10th level caster, with a +7 to hit, will miss a 16 touch AC 45% of the time -- that's good odds, but not great odds. Add in a -4 for lack of precise shot if your ally is in melee with your enemy, and the chance just rose by 20%.

That's why some people harp on touch AC as much as they do. You can get better to hit scores (using weapon focus, using point blank shot, upping your DEX, taking other classes besides arcane casters), but all of them don't address your average PC, and what the better choice is. Magic Missile isn't grossly overpowered, I'll agree, but I do believe as the earlier poster that it's high-end of 1st level. As Monte Cook once said, if the designers had carried through with the brainstorming of making a list of spells for every caster level, instead of every other caster level, then magic missile would be that "second level spell". Now, it's more like it's a "one-and-a-half level" spell.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Very few things in D&D suck as hard as seeing a "1" or a "2" on a to hit roll.

But then there's the natural 20 (or 19 with improved crit) that DOUBLES the damage of the attack spell. There's nothing like rolling 80d6 for a critical disintegrate.