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Magic Missile

I think that you are now dealing with a living ruleset and that the updates can no longer be legitimatly called errata.
Thus, I suspect that there may never be a 5e, unless they want to intorduce a completely revamped base engine to the game.
As for autohit vs roll not sure if there is much to choose there.
Though the combo with Wizards Fury is more interesting, a minor action autohit power is interesting.
 

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It seems to me like flavor is the problem here. When PHB1 was all I had, and I wanted a bard, I made a buff-heavy warlord and called it a Bard. No big deal.

My issue is with the mechanics of the new text. It doesn't attack, damage just happens to the target. And other items have been changed to support this silly premise.

If they wanted the auto hit feel, why didn't they just give MM:
Miss: Intelligence modifier damage​

Sure, this wouldn't kill minons like the 3.5 version would, but there also weren't minions in 3.5 to kill.

I am no fan of the new magic missile introduced with the update.

However, you have proposed a very viable solution in my opinion. The only troubling issue is the "damage on a miss" bit which I am unsure (offhand) being present with any at-wills for any class (I may be wrong, though).

I liked the potential of a 30th lvl. wizard dishing out 4d4+Int mod+6 implement damage with a Magic Missile, with the added +6d6 or +6d8 (or even greater) that could be unleashed on a critical hit (not to mention any other benefits due to build/gear options).

And, as it is with the new magic missile, doesn't the wizard have to see the target to affect it? So would cover & concealment potentially prevent a new MM from hitting at all? Invisibility? Blindness? (Or could this very likely become a factor in future errata/updates that water down this "nice" autohit at-will back to questionable value?)
 

Although I agree that WotC often gets flamed whatever they do, in this case I think some people (myself for sure) are annoyed that they revised a power via errata for no real discernible reason.

Errata should be needed. This wasn't. I strongly dislike the fact that they revised it regardless of whether I like the revision.
Im with this.

Dont get me wrong, Im very happy with WOTC for taking an active role in ensuring that the rules continue to work and correcting the rules that people seem to enjoy exploiting.

But MM just didnt need fixing. It wasnt the top ability in the game, and I imagine it wasnt first preference for alot of wizards out there, but it just didnt need this done to it. Its like taking your car to the mechanic for a change of spark plugs and oil and by the time you pick it up, you find he has swapped the stearing wheel.
 

sorry zapping minions is exactly the reason, why MM is fine now...

Cloud of Daggers can auto-kill minions since the release of 4E.

However, you have proposed a very viable solution in my opinion. The only troubling issue is the "damage on a miss" bit which I am unsure (offhand) being present with any at-wills for any class (I may be wrong, though).

Damage on a miss is there since PHB1 release, Reaping Strike fighter at-will. Cloud of Daggers (wizard at-will) creates an Effect which happens hit or miss and that effect deals damage.
 


Can't we agree that "classic MM" is not auto-hit? The AD&D MM was auto-hit, but neither OD&D nor BECMI had auto-hitting MMs

You are not correct.

OD&D Magic Missiles were autohit, in red box, blue box, and in Rules Cyclopedia.

And, as it is with the new magic missile, doesn't the wizard have to see the target to affect it? So would cover & concealment potentially prevent a new MM from hitting at all? Invisibility? Blindness? (Or could this very likely become a factor in future errata/updates that water down this "nice" autohit at-will back to questionable value?)

Cover and Concealment only apply a -2 or -5 penalty to attack rolls for ranged powers. Magic Missile ignores it because while it is a ranged power, it never rolls to attack.

HOWEVER

Line of Effect is necessary between the wizard and the target. And if the target is invisible, the wizard still has to target the creature by square. This can be very difficult if the target is hidden, and trivial if the target is not.
 
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Cloud of daggers has a delay when trying to auto kill minions...

Maybe i had liked following MM update:

leave everything the same except:

target: 1 or 2 creatures
this spell creates two missiles that can be directed to up to two targets in range.

hit: 1d4 damage per missile

effect: if you target only one creature, this power deals force damage equal to your dex modifier (minimum 1)

level 11: up to 3 creatures
level 21: up to 5 creatures
 
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You are not correct.

OD&D Magic Missiles were autohit, in red box, blue box, and in Rules Cyclopedia.

True: what about in the classic white box original ed. (Or the blue box Holmes ed.?)

Cover and Concealment only apply a -2 or -5 penalty to attack rolls for ranged powers. Magic Missile ignores it because while it is a ranged power, it never rolls to attack.

HOWEVER

Line of Effect is necessary between the wizard and the target. And if the target is invisible, the wizard still has to target the creature by square. This can be very difficult if the target is hidden, and trivial if the target is not.

There is the Line of Sight issue. Also, what are the odds that the new MM may be affected by future updates/errata to further affect new MM based on line of sight issues? With the manner and style of past updates/errata (esp. with the free actions revision of recent), I would not be surprised.

I'm still not crazy about the change to MM because it's in the "spirit" of the previous ed. versions of the spell. If it were truly in the spirit of the older editions of the spell, then:
  • it'd have multiple missiles based on caster level (it'd need to be every 5 levels & not every tier);
  • be an encounter power (because magic missiles were never an unlimited option; you could fill out your 1st-level spell slots with them, but that's it);
  • be thwarted completely by the Shield utility (which would need to last until the end of the encounter or be a sustain minor instead of being an immediate interrupt that lasts until the end of your next turn);
  • be "absorbed" by the Brooch of Shielding (which itself would only lasy until X amount of points were absorbed); and
  • be thwarted by any form of the Globe of Invulnerability.

The fact that a decent at-will power that had good damage, good range, and could serve as a basic ranged attack for the wizard has been revised so it'd appeal more to older players is not a wise decision, IMHO. As it is, older players who want to have a game like the older edition will merely play the older edition of the game (OSRIC, Pathfinder, etc.). There are older players who like racial level limits, seperate XP progression for classes, save or die effects, split-XP advancement for multiclass characters, dual-classing for humans, etc.

Also, though it is good to mop up the board of minions, not every fight has minions. The damage output of the new mm can easily be thwarted by resistances, regeneration, & other effects that non-minions could/would have.

And, in that regard, why should only wizards have a new MM-like at-will power? Shouldn't every other controller have a similar option, to clean up minions like the wizard now can with new MM?

I don't mind MM having a to-hit roll, since it means it can potentially crit & it does more damage than the older version. Honestly, the game uses dice at its foundation: chance is going to be a factor in it regardless.
 

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