Magic Missile

[ExploderWizard]

I wanna argue about a spell.

You can argue about any of the 1st level ones.

I wanna argue about magic missile.

 

[Zaran]

I'd suggest:


Otherwise leaving the power unchanged. I don't think that would make it overpowered.

I agree and it would fit with how we used Magic Missile in 3.5e . To cherry tap monsters we knew were almost dead or had few hit points.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

easier way of doing it would be:

hit: 2d4 damage
effect: int modifier damage

this would result in the same damage as

hit: 2d4+int
miss: int

but with normal interaction with minion rules

 

[brehobit]

easier way of doing it would be:

hit: 2d4 damage
effect: int modifier damage

this would result in the same damage as

hit: 2d4+int
miss: int

but with normal interaction with minion rules

I thought about that, but was worried that some bonuses might stack with both the hit line and the effect line. 4e sometimes tries to get a little too cute with the rules (witness that it isn't clear what an "attack" is now) and I'd prefer to make RAI as clear as possible in the RAW. That said, your suggestion probably works just fine unless someone tries to abuse it.

 

[Zaran]

I thought about that, but was worried that some bonuses might stack with both the hit line and the effect line. 4e sometimes tries to get a little too cute with the rules (witness that it isn't clear what an "attack" is now) and I'd prefer to make RAI as clear as possible in the RAW. That said, your suggestion probably works just fine unless someone tries to abuse it.

Actually, what an attack is has always been an issue with me. The way I read powers like Cleave and Rain of Steel, the free damage they provide is because the fighter is attacking the enemy so the Fighter should be able to mark with the "free" damage. Whether I'm right or not has not be clarified to my knowledge.

 

[KarinsDad]

Actually, what an attack is has always been an issue with me. The way I read powers like Cleave and Rain of Steel, the free damage they provide is because the fighter is attacking the enemy so the Fighter should be able to mark with the "free" damage. Whether I'm right or not has not be clarified to my knowledge.

Although the rules on page 269 of the PHB appear to indicate that Rain of Steel is not an attack, hence, no mark. Cleave is more debatable, but still really not an attack on the damage taking foe. But, at least it is an attack, so there is some rules debate traction there.

The entire "not an attack" aspect of the new Magic Missile is at the core of most of the problems with it. For example, combining it with Greater Invisibility.

 

[Nikosandros]

Actually, what an attack is has always been an issue with me. The way I read powers like Cleave and Rain of Steel, the free damage they provide is because the fighter is attacking the enemy so the Fighter should be able to mark with the "free" damage. Whether I'm right or not has not be clarified to my knowledge.

FAQ #2 of the PHB explicitly states that the free damage with cleave isn't enough to mark.

2. Suppose a Fighter uses his Cleave Attack, dealing damage to an enemy adjacent to the attack target. Can he mark that adjacent enemy as well?

No. Even if the adjacent enemy suffers damage, it was not the target of the attack, and cannot be marked.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I wanna argue about a spell.

You can argue about any of the 1st level ones.

I wanna argue about magic missile.

Why are you arguing about magic missile? There's nothing to debate here!

 

[Piratecat]

What's the ruling on the new magic missile spell attacking the darkness?

 

[MrMyth]

Although the rules on page 269 of the PHB appear to indicate that Rain of Steel is not an attack, hence, no mark. Cleave is more debatable, but still really not an attack on the damage taking foe. But, at least it is an attack, so there is some rules debate traction there.

The entire "not an attack" aspect of the new Magic Missile is at the core of most of the problems with it. For example, combining it with Greater Invisibility.

I don't think there is too much confusion here. There already exist attack powers that don't require an attack roll.

Look, the PHB says that "Most attack powers that deal damage require you to make an attack roll." That indicates that not all of them do. Magic Missile is an attack power - it triggers anything that triggers off of an 'attack'. It does not require an attack roll - it does not trigger anything involving an 'attack roll'.

Rain of Steel doesn't trigger a fighter's mark because it doesn't target an enemy. It targets the character, giving them what is essentially an aura of damage. One could probably argue that activating the stance would break Greater Invisibility, but if you activate the stance first, dealing the damage wouldn't.

In this case, though, you have an attack power that targets an enemy. That's an attack.