Magic System Conundrum

[Oversquid]

One thing I've been doing lately for my homebrew game with a D&D Legacy is in designing its magic system. I like where the magic system idea is right now, but I found myself hitting a wall all of a sudden; and I'm wondering how you would tackle this problem that I will explain to you below.

(By the way if any of you are familiar with the D&D skill system starting from 3.X and up, its the same general idea)

To understand the magic system better, I will explain the skill system I'm using. Basically, skills are expressed as general themes for its functions. So things like climbing, lifting, swimming, and running a marathon would fall under the Athletics skill for example; or sensory functions like listening, smelling, or seeing would fall under the Perception skill. You get the idea.

Well, the magic system I have come up with is very similar conceptually and functionally. Except instead of a category for mundane tasks such as Athletics and Perception, you instead choose some other more mystical or philosophical concept, such as Time, Fire, or Plants. Once you choose a concept, you are able to magically work that concept; be it in manipulating the concept itself, or manipulating others with that concept. For example, let us say we have chosen Time. With Time chosen, we are now able to manipulate everything to do with Time, and we can manipulate other things with Time as well.

This means that you can use this Time-Magic Skill to make a pot of water boil faster, or make a arrow heading towards you fly slower, or some other thing like that. Any time you use such a Magic Skill, you are casting a spell. These spells cast from Magic Skills are called Cantrips (Or Orisons if you're more priestly), and like skills, you can use these Magic Skills at will. Your goal with those Magic Skills is to use them creatively and within reason that your DM allows.

(I should also mention that you can only take those skills so far in certain directions, as some functions of magic are way too powerful to be used at a whim.)

So basically, its all about picking a magical category, and then you're more or less home free to use it as you like to help with whatever situations may come to pass.

Now the conundrum.

When it comes to priests, they choose a deity, a powerful entity, or some other divine source to get their power from. When it comes to priests, they get a magic skill that is specifically anything within a divine portfolio. Perhaps a divine source presides over Murder and Death for example. Then a priest of that source attains a magic skill specific to the manipulation of Murder and Death, or manipulating others with the power of Murder and Death.

Now, what if there is a priest who worships a divine source whose portfolio encompasses everything that exists, and everything that doesn't.

The question becomes, how can I employ this magic system while still having it be open to deities with a portfolio of any size, while still not completely outsourcing other magic users who cast spells from a more limited selection?

I did consider having the priestly characters have to select specific aspects of said deity of everything, but that doesn't feel right personally (At least not in a way I can think of).

At this time, I am going to say to "Talk to the DM about how far you should go with such a massive portfolio compared to others", and while most of an RPG is handwaving and flexibility, I feel like I should still provide more of a solution for this problem aside from handwaving (Unless you have an argument for the contrary.)

So yeah, how would you tackle this problem? Or is it a problem at all?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I would say that within such a system, the divine source of power either 1) emphasizes strengths of the individuals or 2) covers the weaknesses of the individual and grants the magical skills it deems appropriate. (Non-mechanical fluff explanation/justification: this selection occurs during the ritual that makes the person a conduit for the divine energy.) As such, while the divine may have a broad portfolio, the individual priests do not.

And this is functionally no different than what happens when a PC takes up the priesthood in some of the official D&D divine magic systems. Some gods have a half-dozen or more Spheres/Domains, but their clergy rarely have access to more than 2 or 3.

 

[Oversquid]

I would say that within such a system, the divine source of power either 1) emphasizes strengths of the individuals or 2) covers the weaknesses of the individual and grants the magical skills it deems appropriate. (Non-mechanical fluff explanation/justification: this selection occurs during the ritual that makes the person a conduit for the divine energy.) As such, while the divine may have a broad portfolio, the individual priests do not.

And this is functionally no different than what happens when a PC takes up the priesthood in some of the official D&D divine magic systems. Some gods have a half-dozen or more Spheres/Domains, but their clergy rarely have access to more than 2 or 3.

True, and as much as I'd rather not go back to a Spheres system, I think I see why the developers settled on the spheres system.

 

[GMMichael]

The priests answer is simple: you can cast anything under your god's domain - so long as it follows his rules.

So, if the god has a holy book or two, you can cast any spell that wouldn't cause a character from those books to get hit by lightning, cursed, or get his crops destroyed.

By the way, the abstraction of spellcasting skills is likely to be met with frustration by non-spellcasters. For example, the character with +10 Athletics, who can jump a 15' hurdle, is going to feel pretty insufficient next to the character with +10 Time, who can stop the former character in mid-air while he's jumping that hurdle.

 

[Oversquid]

The priests answer is simple: you can cast anything under your god's domain - so long as it follows his rules.

So, if the god has a holy book or two, you can cast any spell that wouldn't cause a character from those books to get hit by lightning, cursed, or get his crops destroyed.

By the way, the abstraction of spellcasting skills is likely to be met with frustration by non-spellcasters. For example, the character with +10 Athletics, who can jump a 15' hurdle, is going to feel pretty insufficient next to the character with +10 Time, who can stop the former character in mid-air while he's jumping that hurdle.

My goal is to make the spellcasting skills be about on par with mundane skills, and while I haven't really touched upon the spellcasting skill's limitations; there are limitations (and stopping time you'll have to admit is a bit too strong to be used at will).

Though, what if this god of everything has no rules over how you use his/her/its power? While it is likely not a problem within most fantasy settings, I feel as though I should not ignore it.

 

[Dragongrief]

Though, what if this god of everything has no rules over how you use his/her/its power? While it is likely not a problem within most fantasy settings, I feel as though I should not ignore it.

It would depend on several things:

1) Did the DM decide there IS a 'God of Everything'? We'll assume yes, because otherwise there's no need to go further.
2) With its portfolio being literally everything, does it even notice the tiny mortals begging favors of it? If not, then it wouldn't be granting spells.
3) If it does, and decides to grant favors, is the mortal mind/spirit/body capable of comprehending and channeling unlimited possibilities?
3a) Would it intentionally vary powers available to an individual based on the person's strengths, personality, or what it needs from that individual?

Many fantasy worlds do have some form of "Supreme Deity", but it is distant and rarely participates in the world.

 

[Sadrik]

Just go with a list of domains (or spheres). Then write in the rules a difficulty based on how closely the request is to the gods portfolio. So a death god may allow certain types of magic to be very easy and certain types of other magic be very hard. It is good to quantify this but you could make a list of domains give "greater" access to some and minor access to others and barred access to even others. Then you use those to form the DC when casting a spell, with further allowing the DM to modify DCs on the fly based on how closely it aligns to the domains/deities/philosophies values/vision/goals.