Magic weapon crafting tweaks, need your eyeballs please

[blargney the second]

My bard arcane duelist is about to hit 5th level, and with it he'll be the first character in our Dark Sun game to be able to craft magic items. Specifically, he'll be able to put enhancements on his bonded weapon, so magic weapon crafting is the focus of this post.

Here are the parameters that we're working with:

1. E6 system - the highest caster level possible is 6, and some spells are inaccessible.
2. Crappy materials - we're dealing with materials that are the equivalent of cursed weapons in regular D&D. ie -1 attack, -1 damage.
3. No +X enhancements - the DM doesn't want +1, +2, etc weapons (or armors) in the world.
4. Weapon breakage - on a natural 1, your weapon makes a saving throw or breaks.
5. Drawbacks and charges - many items have drawbacks and/or finite charges. ie I had an obsidian longsword that did 1d8 frost damage per hit, but I also had to make a DC 15 Will save or take 1d6 Wisdom damage. It only had 5 or 6 charges when we acquired it, and one was used each time it hit an enemy.

Problem: As a result of #1 and #3 above, there are very very few enhancements that it is actually possible to craft. So we're looking at a slight overhaul of the crafting system.

Proposed solution:

1. Remove caster level & spell requirements - frost usually needs CL 8 and chill metal or ice storm. Remove them.
2. Maximum equivalent +X - a normal +1 weapon requires CL 3, and a +2 weapon needs CL 6. Since regular enhancement bonuses are gone, at CL 3-5 a given weapon can have either frost (+1 equiv) or keen (+1 equiv), and both at CL 6. Or just wounding (+2 equiv) at CL 6.
3. Drawbacks if you are not the crafter - if you actually make an item yourself, it has no drawbacks for you. Other people using it experience drawbacks. The reasoning for this is that the crafter had to sink feats. Side benefit is that we can sort the drawback list out at a later date.

Does this seem like a reasonable idea, or is there some major stupidity that we've overlooked?

Thanks!
-blarg

 

[blargney the second]

Bueller, Bueller...

Is the idea so good that it doesn't need input, or so bad that you just don't know where to start?
-blarg

 

[Enkindu594]

I think the problem you are running into is that you are running E6. The play testing/balance of the system does not relate to E6.

That being said, I've always thought that E6 is a good idea. It seems like a way to maintain the sense of fear that exists in low level play, and do away with some of the wonkiness that creeps into the game as you level.

In so far as parameters go:
1. Ok
2. Is this the case for all weapons, even those that you aren't making? Are you able to purchase masterwork versions of regular weapons with regular materials that you can then enchant? If there is just crappy stuff avaiable in as far as weaponry? Every weapon is made out of poor materials?
That is one thing, but being magical, especially in the setting you are describing SHOULD BE SPECIAL Being magical should probably make up for low quality steel, or you should have to go out of your way to find good steel (/iron/whatever) in order to make your weapon, if you are not just enchanting something.
3. This sounds like the begingings of a pretty cool rule. This rule means that you are not just wanting to get a sword that hit quicker and harder, but rather you want a sword, where what it does is "I AM ON FIRE!!!1! BURN!!1!!1" (insert approrpriate energy type/whatever). Especially in an E6 system where BAB, and AC are severely limited, this is probably a great idea for both offensive and defensive items, and it make the items more unique.

That being said, I do think that even within a E6 system you should probably have a significantly lower cap on the total enhancement of a weapon and allow a +1 to hit/damage/ac to be put on an item. Maybe you could work it to where you have a +3 total cap, and can only have a +1 max on the weapon. i.e you could have a weapon that was +1, Keen, Flaming, and/or a + keen, flaming burst, but never a +1 keen, flaming burst weapon because that would be +4. You could have a +1 weapon, or a +1 plus stuff, but never a +3.

4. Yikes, I hope the DC is low, and my weapon has a high save. Is this the case for all weapons? Or just magical weapons? If this is only magical weapons then no, this is a really, really bad rule.

5. I like this in general, but the drawback should fit the weapon. And using the weapon should be beneficial. Honestly, the vicious property should be your basis of comparison. It deals some damage to you, if you want to deal damage to others. But maybe the weapon sucks some of the heat from your soul in order to deal firey damage to your opponent. You take 1d6 frost dmg, to deal 2d6, or 1d12, or whatever fire damage to your enemies. what happens if you manage to get some frost resistance? Well then congratulations for your free damage. Especially in your environment this could lead to some cool villains/characters

Now for your solutions
1. Yes, exactly, at thjis point it shoudl come down to cost, with a certain cap

2. Yes, exactly. I would honestly put the cap at +3, but limit the +x to hit/dmg/ac at +1, and the other +2 total should be properties. Also, someone should be able to have a weapon/armor that has a +x ehancement, without a numerical value (i.e. a flaming sword (no +1))

3. Ehhhh, I would scratch this. If you really wanted to stress something here, I would include a bonus for the crafter

 

[blargney the second]

Welcome to ENWorld! I enjoy that your first post dives right in.

For what it's worth, the items I have listed as parameters in the first post are already set in stone. I'm just a player in this game, and my DM has asked me to scout out some tweaks to the crafting rules to reduce the load on him.

I can expand on some of the parameters that you mentioned:
1. E6 - you're totally correct that this is the root source of the majority of the glitches we're encountering here. But it's SO AWESOME.
2. Crappy materials - at this point we aren't examining the Craft skill itself. We already have the non-magical items and just want to inspect the module about crafting them into magic items. My bard went from a bone weapon (-1 att/-1 dam), to obsidian (+0/-1), to MW obsidian (+1/-1), to his current MW steel sword (+1/+0). Those correlated pretty closely to levels 1-4. The MW steel sword is the one I am intending to fixer-upper as my bonded weapon.
3. No +X enhancements - addendum: weapons can have special effects put on them without first having a minimum +1 enhancement. This was already in place, I just took it as such a given that I neglected to state it outright.
4. Weapon breakage - the DC is 15, and materials determine the save bonus. Bone is +4, obsidian +2, bronze +8, steel +10. Any weapon at all is subject to this rule. We've broken quite a number of weapons already. It's actually a really nifty and flavourful house rule that accomplishes the design objective that the DM wanted.
5. Drawbacks and charges - I think you're onto something with the vicious idea. It's at the very least an excellent starting place! Given the extreme level of poverty in this setting, maybe drawbacks are just an optional way of reducing an item's cost. Come to think of it, all the charged items we've found so far are use-activated, which already has its own form of discount. If we use the appropriate crafting rules for charged & use-activated items, that probably sorts out a bunch of issues on its own.

Now for your solutions
1. Yes, exactly, at thjis point it shoudl come down to cost, with a certain cap

2. Yes, exactly. I would honestly put the cap at +3, but limit the +x to hit/dmg/ac at +1, and the other +2 total should be properties. Also, someone should be able to have a weapon/armor that has a +x ehancement, without a numerical value (i.e. a flaming sword (no +1))

3. Ehhhh, I would scratch this. If you really wanted to stress something here, I would include a bonus for the crafter

Fair enough on the scratching drawbacks component.

Okay, so it sounds like we're onto a reasonable solution here. Set a cap of +2 or +3 (up to the DM, really), remove minimum CLs and required spells for special effects, and go to town. I'm a big fan of simple and effective solutions.

Thanks for replying!
-blarg

 

[BriarMonkey]

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[Enkindu594]

Thanks for the welcome, I have been a lurker for years, and when reading your post, seeing that it was getting no replies, a mood struck me to go ahead and create an account!