Major wizard upgrade

[KarinsDad]

Have you actually played or run with it in the game? It's a bigger deal than you'd think.

Especially when people start doing ridiculous things like Salve of Power and Secret of Creation along with it.

I've just seen how problematic Close Blast 3 powers are. Against Fort? How many times do Wizards use Thunderwave against more than 1 or 2 foes. The Invoker is lucky to stun 1 target with a Daily. Or the Invoker might be swamped by the foes that he missed if he steps away from group protection to get an opportunity to attack 3 or more foes with it.

Remember, stun is great. But, it just stops two attacks per foe (on average, most foes will save in two rounds), one of which would have missed on average anyway. So each foe stunned turns a single hit into a miss on average, slightly more with area attacks. In an encounter where there are 20 successful hits by foes, stopping 1 to 3 of them (and sometimes 0) is good, but it's not broken. No more than a Daily healing power that heals more damage than would have been taken in 1 to 3 successful attacks is broken. Beacon of Hope is stronger than this in reality. Its strength is just different (heal lots of damage, weaken foes, affect more foes, does not adversely affect allies).


As for Salve of Power and Creation Secret, it's just a matter of synergies. Every time WotC allows powers, items, and feats to allow PCs to not expend some power, there's the opportunity for abuse. But the combo here on average allows the player to use Silent Malediction ~3.2 times per day. It costs an item (which can be used by any class to regain a daily, so no advantage for the Invoker) and 2+ healing surges to get this many stun attempts. Invokers are 6+CON healing surge PCs (the lowest in the game). If they use up 2 or 3 surges a day doing this, especialliy with a blast that forces the Invoker to get in close, they are taking a risk and they are reducing the number of encounters per day (on average).


I'm not saying Silent Malediction is bad or average. Like Sleep, it is above par. It's just not broken. It's definitely on the top end.

And Salve of Power can be used by any class for any tweaked out combo, so...

As for Creation Secret, a PC could just go ahead and buy/craft two or three Salves of Power by mid-paragon and have the same advantage as the tricked out Invoker.


People see the word Stun in a power and freak.

 

[keterys]

People see the word Stun in a power and freak.

And they do so _at level 1_ for a good reason. The power would fit in reasonably well at level 9 or 15, however.

Which is pretty much the point. Stuff gets screwed up all the time. I'm sure there are lots of people who think Hand of Radiance is a screw up, much like there are lots of people who think the new wizard at-will is a screw up

 

[KarinsDad]

Which is pretty much the point. Stuff gets screwed up all the time. I'm sure there are lots of people who think Hand of Radiance is a screw up, much like there are lots of people who think the new wizard at-will is a screw up

Hand of Radiance is a screw up.

 

[keterys]

It is probably worth note that one nice thing about Dragon is that you get a month to provide feedback and get things changed before final compilation.

So, hopping over to the WotC boards to ask for it to be a different damage type or a static damage amount is still viable. If it dealt just Int damage, I bet there wouldn't be much hubbub about it, actually.

 

[Felon]

Now now, let's be honest - this spell could just as easily have appeared in Arcane Power as in Dragon.

By and large, the stuff from Arcane Power is pretty tame. Martial Power and Divine Power, OTOH, fawn on some classes like mad (yeah, converting Turn Undead into a mass heal is a great idea--really patches that dearth of healing in the cleric's powerset).

This is unfortunate because, honestly, arcane classes--particularly wizard and warlock--are the two that could use the biggest boost of all.

 

[keterys]

You're not really disputing my point, though. That the actual published books have... outliers... just like Dragon does.

 

[kerbarian]

it's enemies only too! I mean, that makes sense with the kicker, but as written this is an Int damage power, not 1d6+Int.

I'd say that with just 1d6 damage, this power would be strong but not an automatic first choice for every wizard. With just Int damage, it would be significantly weaker, though still perhaps viable as a niche spell. Without a damage roll, it loses enhancement and feat bonuses to damage, and it's no longer eligible to be enlarged with Enlarge Spell.

 

[Destil]

You're not really disputing my point, though. That the actual published books have... outliers... just like Dragon does.

I absolutely agree, in general, and may have overlooked whatever dragonborn feat you're talking about (Feat bonus or Untyped?). Genasi wizards can also basically be sorcerers for the cost of a feat out of AP (+str to damage untyped), and the test build I made with it was disgusting.

I'll argue the stun power because I actually rather like it. Way too many of the malediction powers feel like they're in the same power range as powers without any drawback. It's nice that a few are clearly awesome (and stun is much better than sleep's possible unconscious/helpless, coup de grace is nasty at level 1).

But dragon is really everywhere. Way more over and underpowered things (so far I've felt the desire to ban two splatbook feats total and it sounds like I may have missed a 3rd in AP, I don't allow dragon without approval).

Anyway, sorry for the derail. Back to discussing an overpowered power.

 

[Destil]

I'd say that with just 1d6 damage, this power would be strong but not an automatic first choice for every wizard. With just Int damage, it would be significantly weaker, though still perhaps viable as a niche spell. Without a damage roll, it loses enhancement and feat bonuses to damage, and it's no longer eligible to be enlarged with Enlarge Spell.

Ranged Burst 1, Int Damage, Psychic, No AOs, Enemies Only

Fairly weak In heroic tier. In paragon take Psychic Lock and it's actually really decent. Energy admixture gets you some other nice boost. All arcane at-wills have the option but this is stronger here because of one thing: you can't admixture psychic. Psychic Lock is one of the best energy-kicker feats. Since it's a fantastic debuff and doesn't hit allies I think not having access to enlarge is fair.

So, yeah, in heroic it's not terribly competitive. But once you get a few paragon feats under your belt it's at least closer to even with Scorching Burst (as written it blows burst out of the water in both tiers). Also, many wizards just want one good AoE to act as a minion sweeper, so the lowered damage isn't even as big a deal as it should be...

 

[eamon]

Ranged Burst 1, Int Damage, Psychic, No AOs, Enemies Only

This would make it almost 100% weaker than chilling cloud, which further penalizes enemies with a -2 to attack rolls while inside the cloud.