Make SPELLS Balanced

[Yaarel]

Here finetunes the spell list for the 3rd Slot.

3rd SLOT

Spoiler

Unworthy of Spell Preparation − RITUAL NOT SPELL
Feign Death → Medicine Check
Galders Tower
Create Food and Water → Survival Check
Speak With Dead ("DM Gives Hint") → Religion Check
Plant Growth
Meld into Stone
Speak with Plants ("DM Gives Hint")
Glyph of Warding
Catnip (alteration of the setting Resting mechanic)
Phantom Steed (demote to 2nd Slot and Good there but 1 minute casting time less useful)
Tiny Servant (Not Bad but 1 minute casting time less useful)
Magic Circle (Not Bad but 1 minute casting time less useful)
Animate Dead (Good but 1 minute casting time less useful)
Clairvoyance (Good but 10 minute casting time less useful
Tiny Hut of Leomunds (Excellent but 1 minute casting time less useful)

Demote to a Cantrip − NEEDS RETHINK/DEMOTION
Water Breathing

Demote to 1st SLOT − NEEDS RETHINK/DEMOTION
Wall of Water
Daylight
Water Walk

Demotion to 2nd SLOT − NEEDS RETHINK/DEMOTION
Flame Arrows
Crusaders Mantle
Wind Wall
Wall of Sand
Sending ("Telepathy")
Tongues ("Telepathy")
Vampiric Touch
Conjure Barrage

Less Useful − NEEDS RETHINK/DEMOTION
Elemental Weapon
Remove Curse
Nondetection
Gaseous Form
Hunger of Hadar

Not Bad − Forgivable − NEEDS DOUBLECHECK/DEMOTION
Bestow Curse
Ashardalons Stride
Spirit Shroud
Intellect Fortress
Beacon of Hope
Blinding Smite
Stinking Cloud
Tidal Wave
Blink

Good − Standard Effect For 3rd SLOT
Protection from Energy
Sleet Storm
Minute Meteors
Slow
Erupting Earth
Pulse Wave
Call Lightning
Hypnotic Pattern
Fear
Thunderstep
Dispel Magic

Excellent − NEEDS DOUBLECHECK/PROMOTION
Haste
Spirit Guardians
Summon Lesser Demons
Conjure Animals
Summon Undead
Summon Fey
Summon Shadowspawn
Enemies Abound
Fast Friends
Mass Healing Word
Lightning Bolt
Lightning Arrow
Major Image
Aura of Vitality
Fly
Counterspell
Revivify
Fireball

 

[ECMO3]

Hypnotic Pattern and Fear are similar in effectiveness. Hypnotic Pattern is slightly better by making the creatures Incapacitated, but Fear moves the creatures away so one need not deal with them immediately.

Notably both spells can affect teammates, thus greatly reducing the usefulness.

I will probably relocate both to Good − being standard for a 3rd Slot.

If the DM plays on easy mode they are similar, if the DM plays smart monsters smart Fear is a lot better.

The problem with hypnotic pattern is one uneffected enemy can end the effect on someone with an action and that enemy does not lose a turn getting out of the effect. This means as long as one enemy saves it should last no longer than 2 turns. For example you target 10 guys with HP. 9 of them fail the save and are charmed. The one that is not charmed uses his action to free one that is, that one uses his action to free another one, that one uses his action to free another one...... in one round all of them are free of it. That is how it works RAW, if the DM does not play the monsters that way, claims they would not know or try that, or houserules it so enemies can't act on the round they are shaken out then they are comparable. I will note though that damaging enemies also ends the effect so even in this case I would still give the edge to fear.

Fear by contrast is impossible to get out of as long as the caster is in sight. If you cast Fear in a room that is a dead end, the fight is over for any that fail the save (unless the caster loses concentration). They can't leave the room because of frightened, they can't take any actions and they don't get to save again. Outside in an open area any that fail have to dash away for an entire minute since they can't break line of sight, all you have to do is chase them and keep wailing them with AOOs (or ranged attacks). Best case for the monsters is it is in an area with a lot of vegetation or underground where they can run around a corner and out of sight and save again. In those cases it is at least 2 lost turns as they take one turn dashing away. If they manage to make the first save at the end of that turn, then they need to dash the next turn to get back to the same place they were when the spell was cast.

Fear is by far the most effective spell available at 3rd level.

Character optimizers and the 5e designers themselves regard Fireball as an unusually powerful spell.

Yeah but they are wrong it isn't very powerful in play, certainly not compared to control spells.

That said, it occurs to me that Lightning Bolt feels more like a Single-Target spell. Yes, it might also affect one or two other creatures in the line, but that possibility is "situational" thus less useful.

I find fireball more situational because of the large area. To cast fireball effectively against melee goons a wizard usually needs to win inititative outright, beating both the goons and his own melee allies. I think your quote kind of gets to the point. I would say in a multi-target combat, Lighting bolt can almost always target two enemies, but Lightning bolt CAN be used against a single target and it CAN be used in almost any combat at any point in that combat.

Fireball is a more powerful opener, if the wizard gets a very high initiative, and if there are a lot of enemies but that in itself is situational.

Now if you are playing an evocation wizard that can sculpt spells that is a different story.

 

[Yaarel]

Yeah but they are wrong it isn't very powerful in play, certainly not compared to control spells.

I find fireball more situational because of the large area. To cast fireball effectively against melee goons a wizard usually needs to win inititative outright, beating both the goons and his own melee allies. I think your quote kind of gets to the point. I would say in a multi-target combat, Lighting bolt can almost always target two enemies, but Lightning bolt CAN be used against a single target and it CAN be used in almost any combat at any point in that combat.

Fireball is a more powerful opener, if the wizard gets a very high initiative, and if there are a lot of enemies but that in itself is situational.

Now if you are playing an evocation wizard that can sculpt spells that is a different story.

The character optimizers and designers who focus exactly on how powerful a mechanic is in play identify Fireball as "very powerful in play".

If the DM plays on easy mode they are similar, if the DM plays smart monsters smart Fear is a lot better.

The problem with hypnotic pattern is one uneffected enemy can end the effect on someone with an action and that enemy does not lose a turn getting out of the effect. This means as long as one enemy saves it should last no longer than 2 turns. For example you target 10 guys with HP. 9 of them fail the save and are charmed. The one that is not charmed uses his action to free one that is, that one uses his action to free another one, that one uses his action to free another one...... in one round all of them are free of it. That is how it works RAW, if the DM does not play the monsters that way, claims they would not know or try that, or houserules it so enemies can't act on the round they are shaken out then they are comparable. I will note though that damaging enemies also ends the effect so even in this case I would still give the edge to fear.

Fear by contrast is impossible to get out of as long as the caster is in sight. If you cast Fear in a room that is a dead end, the fight is over for any that fail the save (unless the caster loses concentration). They can't leave the room because of frightened, they can't take any actions and they don't get to save again. Outside in an open area any that fail have to dash away for an entire minute since they can't break line of sight, all you have to do is chase them and keep wailing them with AOOs (or ranged attacks). Best case for the monsters is it is in an area with a lot of vegetation or underground where they can run around a corner and out of sight and save again. In those cases it is at least 2 lost turns as they take one turn dashing away. If they manage to make the first save at the end of that turn, then they need to dash the next turn to get back to the same place they were when the spell was cast.

Fear is by far the most effective spell available at 3rd level.

Re Hypnotic Pattern, if the creatures are wasting their action that is extremely valuable to the caster. Even two rounds of nonaction is a long time in a combat encounter.

I agree, Fear has the edge, but both Fear and Hypnotic Pattern are comparable.

An advantage of Hypnotic is its range. Because the Fear and Hypnotic spells target allies as well as hostiles, casting it in the distance at a cluster of hostiles is valuable.

 

[ECMO3]

[edit.]


The character optimizers and designers who focus exactly on how powerful a mechanic is in play identify Fireball as "very powerful in play".

Most of the optimizers I've seen rank it middle of the road.

Here Treantmonk ranks Firreball as 2nd most overated spell in the game, my experience is similar to his:

 

[Yaarel]

my experience is similar to his:

That is fair enough.

At the same time, in the spell rankings here, it is the aggregate of all players (that are reasonably skilled at optimizing) that determines a rank.

Even when some optimizers employ nondamage spells more effectively, most optimizers use damage spells more effectively, relating to "focus fire".

@Treantmonk specifically advocates the potency of Wizard mobility spells (that grant or prevent tactical positioning for battlefield control). Meanwhile the Fighter (and others) are supposed to fulfill the necessity of dealing damage.

 

[Yaarel]

The 4th slot is the most powerful spells that most gamers will ever see. 83% of D&D campaigns will end at level 8 or sooner.

Tier 1-4: 57%
Tier 5-8: 36%
Tier 9-12: 12%
Tier 13-16: 3%
Tier 17-20: 2%

Because slot 4 is a high slot that over a third of campaigns are likely to see, it should include fun and effective spells.

 

[Yaarel]

Here is the spell list for the 4th slot.

4th SLOT

Spoiler

Unworthy of Spell Preparation − RITUAL NOT SPELL
Hallucinatory Terrain (not even worth a cantrip)
Leomunds Secret Chest
Widogasts Vault of Amber
Galders Speedy Courier
Divination ("DM gives a hint")
Private Sanctum (Less Useful)
Control Water (Less Useful)
Fabricate (Not Bad but prohibitive casting time)
Conjure Minor Elementals (Not Bad but prohibitive casting time)
Find Greater Steed (Good if after normal horse and before flying mount)

Demotion to 2nd Slot − NEEDS RETHINK/DEMOTION
Faithful Hound
Grasping Vine
Guardian of Nature
Locate Creature

Demotion to 3rd Slot − NEEDS RETHINK/DEMOTION
Elemental Bane
Stone Shape
Guardian of Faith
Shadow of Moil
Dominate Beast
Ice Storm
Aura of Life
Wall of Fire
Phantasmal Killer

Less Useful − NEEDS RETHINK/DEMOTION
Stoneskin

Not Bad − Forgivable − NEEDS DOUBLECHECK/DEMOTION
Aura of Purity
Storm Sphere
Confusion
Compulsion
Freedom of Movement
Conjure Woodland Beings (DM decides creatures; Excellent if pixies)
Summon Elemental
Summon Greater Demon

Good − Standard Effect for 4th Slot
Blight
Dimension Door
Giant Insect
Fire Shield
Staggering Smite
Arcane Eye
Sickening radiance
Vitriolic Sphere
Summon Construct
Raulothims Psychic Lance
Evards Black Tentacles

Excellent − NEEDS DOUBLECHECK/PROMOTION
Summon Aberration
Otilukes Resilient Sphere
Death Ward
Water Sphere
Greater Invisibility
Widogasts Web of Fire
Gravity Sinkhole
Banishment
Charm Monster
Polymorph

 

[mellored]

I wouldn't mind seeing some spells consolidated. Just to shrink the list a little bit.

I.e. hold person / hold monster can be put into a single block.
As well as dominate beast/ person/ monster.
Probably some others too.

Oh, and no conjure 8, or even 4 creatures. It just boggs down the game.

 

[Yaarel]

Oh, and no conjure 8, or even 4 creatures. It just boggs down the game.

If I understand correctly, the new "Summon" spells will obsolete the earlier 2014 "Conjure" spells.

All of the Summon spells summon only a single creature. (So the designers might be of the same mind as you here.)

Happily, the new Summon spells are worth their official slot. They require one action to cast. But within the slot the spell benefit varies noticeably from Excellent to Good to Not Bad.

 

[bert1001 fka bert1000]

The 4th slot is the most powerful spells that most gamers will ever see. 83% of D&D campaigns will end at level 8 or sooner.

Tier 1-4: 57%
Tier 5-8: 36%
Tier 9-12: 12%
Tier 13-16: 3%
Tier 17-20: 2%

Because slot 4 is a high slot that over a third of campaigns are likely to see, it should include fun and effective spells.

I never like this argument. It's my suspicion that the reason a lot of campaigns end early is that higher level D&D is not well balanced and breaks down. Higher levels spells are a big part of this. It is especially important to balance and rework spells at higher levels.

But perhaps that is a different thread rather than trying to balance spells within their current power levels.

 

[tetrasodium]

I never like this argument. It's my suspicion that the reason a lot of campaigns end early is that higher level D&D is not well balanced and breaks down. Higher levels spells are a big part of this. It is especially important to balance and rework spells at higher levels.

But perhaps that is a different thread rather than trying to balance spells within their current power levels.

That bolded bit is a thousand percent accurate but it's not just spells. In the case of 5e you have the first strike where monsters are not balanced for high level PCs because they are aimed at low level parties & hamstrung by bounded accuracy before they even have a chance against higher level PCs. D&d is math at all levels for 5e to crash into a second strike when the gm finds themselves without the very tools like SR, DR, touchAC, resist #/x, narrow telegraphable saves that allow certain types of spells to be (dis) favored, & so on right when it becomes most important for the gm of a high level party to start employing those tools with finesse to monsters based on their high level party's size & make up. Finally 5e gets a well deserved third strike that manages to throw the bat at the gm for injury with its by replacing those tools with crude & primative analogs of 50%resist msgic/legendary resist and a pointless excess of saves that monsters rarely even waste ink having anything more than +ability mod to saves when it matters.

 

[Yaarel]

Spells are the essence of the high-tier gaming engine.

Normally, the designers reallocate the spell design space, when measuring out the impact of new non-spell features for high level classes.

It is vital, the high-tier spells balance well thus merit the value of their assigned spell slot.

 

[Yaarel]

The "standard" damage spell has an instantaneous duration, deals an amount of damage within a specific range per slot, and saves for half damage. These standard spells are well understood, and easy to evaluate.

Spells that do damage no-save, or else save for zero damage, are variants of the standard damage spell that are also easy to calculate and evaluate.

(By the way. Even spells whose purpose is to purely deal damage should probably include a "ribbon", namely a low-tier or less useful minor feature, for the sake of flavor. For example, even the Fireball spell has a ribbon where it can damage unattended objects along with the intended creatures. Usually, the DM can narratively adjudicate what objects the Fireball destroys, but sometimes the DM will want to roll a save for a specific object. Here the ribbon helps actualize the flavor of extreme heat.)



The standard damage spells that are instantaneous, contrast the nonstandard damage spells that are non-instantaneous. The non-instantaneous deal smaller amounts of ongoing damage, whether across multiple turns or multiple hours, whether dealing auto-damage, using bonus actions, or enhancing actions.

In the context of the gaming engine, these ongoing damage spells are centrally important. Because. The ongoing at-will damage is where the caster classes like Wizard and the noncaster classes like Fighter, intersect. When a Wizard casts an ongoing damage spell, the damage-dealing per turn behaves more like a Fighter wielding at-will high weapon damage.

The standard damage spells are clear to me. These ongoing damage spells are less clear − but so important to get right. How much ongoing damage should a spell deal for each higher slot?

Typically, the Wizard avoids these ongoing damage spells, because the instantaneous higher damage is more effective to eliminate any hostiles and prevent the hostiles from continuing to harm the teammates. Even so, when the Wizard does choose an ongoing spell, the Wizard character resembles the gaming engine of the Fighter class. I need to understand this event better. How much ongoing damage is appropriate at each slot.

 

[MNblockhead]

I never like this argument. It's my suspicion that the reason a lot of campaigns end early is that higher level D&D is not well balanced and breaks down. Higher levels spells are a big part of this. It is especially important to balance and rework spells at higher levels.

But perhaps that is a different thread rather than trying to balance spells within their current power levels.

A welcome addition to the DMG would be to add a section to help newer DMs understand the effects certain spells can have on the game and over advise on revising the available spells based on genre or play style.

 

[Yaarel]

A welcome addition to the DMG would be to add a section to help newer DMs understand the effects certain spells can have on the game and over advise on revising the available spells based on genre or play style.

A simple suggestion for a "low magic" "high fantasy" setting, ban full-casters and only use half-casters. For example, the Paladin is great for a Gandalf archetype. A Trickster Rogue is awesome for a Conan sorcerer. A nature-mage Ranger. Even a Monk fits right in. The magic is vivid but low key. These mages are still effective characters.

 

[Yaarel]

Looking closer at the "ongoing" damage spells. They are all over the place. The following are my current impressions.

The "standard" ongoing damage spell targets multiple creatures.

Ongoing damage typically targets any "creatures", including harming friends too. "Safe" spells that only target chosen hostiles are uncommon.

"Ongoing" can mean various things. Creatures might incur damage per-turn at start or end. Bonus actions might inflict damage. Extra damage might add to weapon attacks. To inflict the damage might require an Attack Roll, or allow a Save, or be Automatic. A creature might need to make multiple Saves, each time the damage occurs, or the Save might end the ongoing damage. The creatures might need to waste an action to end the ongoing damage. The caster might need to spend future actions to wield a "heavy weapon", like Call Lightning. And so on. In some way, new damage continues to occur in future turns after the spell has been cast.

Summon spells that position an additional creature as an ally, come with their own complications. Even so, a summon spell is a kind of ongoing damage spell, and it is important to consider how much ongoing damage the summoning contributes.

It is "Good" when the creature incurs damage at the "start" of its turn. But it is "Less Useful" when the creature incurs it at the "end" of its turn. If at the end, the hostile can continue to harm the team of the caster before elimination.

Ongoing damage from an unmovable area is seriously Less Useful. Compare Wall of Fire or Mordenkainens Faithful Hound. The caster can probably catch creatures when the area first appears, but afterward the creatures can simply avoid the area, so that there is no more ongoing damage. If the damage incurs at the end of the turn, so that the creature can walk away without taking any damage, then the spell is almost pointless. An immovable damaging area is moreorless equivalent to a one-time instantaneous Fireball, so the initial damage at the appearance of the spell must be worthwhile, and the possibility of future damage later is more like a "situational" minor ribbon.

By contrast, a movable damaging area, such as Call Lightning, is Good, to bring the ongoing damage to the creatures in future rounds.

An area that deals damage if the creature "enters" can be worthwhile, because the team can Push the creatures into the area for respectable extra damage once per turn.

The "standard" ongoing damage spell has duration of 1 minute. This means, the damage remains in effect for one very long combat encounter, or two or three interrelated combat encounters. The duration of 10 minutes is not meaningfully better. It might be useful, it might not. A 1 hour duration is more significant, so at least the spell remains in effect for some session or mission.

Almost always, ongoing damage requires Concentration. The few spells that dont might even seem accidental. Designers view layering many ongoing damage effects as seriously imbalancing to the gaming engine.



In 5e so far, the amounts of ongoing damage that these spells do are all over the place. I have in mind how much damage these should do: at least 4 damage per spell slot. So, a 2nd-slot spell should deal at least 8 damage per round to each creature, and a 4th-slot spell should deal at least 16. I will post more about damage in a later post.

 

[tetrasodium]

Looking closer at the "ongoing" damage spells. They are all over the place. The following are my current impressions.

The "standard" ongoing damage spell targets multiple creatures.

Ongoing damage typically targets any "creatures", including harming friends too. "Safe" spells that only target chosen hostiles are uncommon.

"Ongoing" can mean various things. Creatures might incur damage per-turn at start or end. Bonus actions might inflict damage. Extra damage might add to weapon attacks. To inflict the damage might require an Attack Roll, or allow a Save, or be Automatic. A creature might need to make multiple Saves, each time the damage occurs, or the Save might end the ongoing damage. The creatures might need to waste an action to end the ongoing damage. The caster might need to spend future actions to wield a "heavy weapon", like Call Lightning. And so on. In some way, new damage continues to occur in future turns after the spell has been cast.

Summon spells that position an additional creature as an ally, come with their own complications. Even so, a summon spell is a kind of ongoing damage spell, and it is important to consider how much ongoing damage the summoning contributes.

It is "Good" when the creature incurs damage at the "start" of its turn. But it is "Less Useful" when the creature incurs it at the "end" of its turn. If at the end, the hostile can continue to harm the team of the caster before elimination.

Ongoing damage from an unmovable area is seriously Less Useful. Compare Wall of Fire or Mordenkainens Faithful Hound. The caster can probably catch creatures when the area first appears, but afterward the creatures can simply avoid the area, so that there is no more ongoing damage. If the damage incurs at the end of the turn, so that the creature can walk away without taking any damage, then the spell is almost pointless. An immovable damaging area is moreorless equivalent to a one-time instantaneous Fireball, so the initial damage at the appearance of the spell must be worthwhile, and the possibility of future damage later is more like a "situational" minor ribbon.

By contrast, a movable damaging area, such as Call Lightning, is Good, to bring the ongoing damage to the creatures in future rounds.

An area that deals damage if the creature "enters" can be worthwhile, because the team can Push the creatures into the area for respectable extra damage once per turn.



In 5e so far, the amounts of ongoing damage that these spells do are all over the place. I have in mind how much damage these should do: at least 4 damage per spell slot. So, a 2nd-slot spell should deal at least i damage per round to each creature, and a 4th-slot spell should deal at least 16. I will post more about damage in a later post.

Ongoing damage spells are mostly carrying over values used in the past (cook & book excluded since it once kinda sucked). Being able to deal a damage type that disables regen etherealness or whatever round after round with a single spell was huge against certain monsters back then. Cantrips trivialize dealing a damage type each round (even more so when the most popular high damage cantrips tend to be the go to damage type for this). If WotC provided GMs with a good way of removing offensive cantrips or limiting them to the old "N level zero slots/day with nonscaling 1d3 damage but gain X" it would go a long way towards creating a situation where it matters for at least some tables.

 

[Yaarel]

Ongoing damage spells are mostly carrying over values used in the past (cook & book excluded since it once kinda sucked). Being able to deal a damage type that disables regen etherealness or whatever round after round with a single spell was huge against certain monsters back then. Cantrips trivialize dealing a damage type each round (even more so when the most popular high damage cantrips tend to be the go to damage type for this). If WotC provided GMs with a good way of removing offensive cantrips or limiting them to the old "N level zero slots/day with nonscaling 1d3 damage buHet gain X" it would go a long way towards creating a situation where it matters for at least some tables.

I love cantrips. Their at-will magic makes my characters feel magical.

Heh, one of the reasons I can no longer play 3e is its lack of cantrips. I dont want to spend the game shooting mundane crossbolts when I want to play a magical character.



That said.

Cantrips seem to replace a number of ongoing damage concepts. Even some of the 5e ongoing damage spells feel more like a cantrip. Consider the Divine Favor spell: it makes weapon attacks deal radiant damage. This could be a cantrip, like Shillelagh, that can add the ability to the cantrip damage, while transfiguring the damage type into radiant. The cantrip could use a slot to augment extra damage to each attack.

 

[Yaarel]

In the context of a Psion discussion, I suggested a new mechanic. I invented it, but suspect "nothing is new under the sun".



Certain spells "occupy" a spell slot, rather than spend it. While the slot is occupied, the spell is in effect. It is always on, for an indefinite period of time. The occupied slot cannot be used for any other spell. But, it remains an option to free up the spell slot thus ending the always-on effect. Then the slot can be used for an other spell. To reuse the occupied slot for an other spell can represent going nova. The purpose of this new Occupant mechanic is to represent a superhero-like magical effects− that is always on.

The description for the spell itself says if it is a Occupant spell. For example, the Divine Favor spell could be one. This version would occupy a 1st-slot to deal 1d6 damage (or 4) extra radiant damage per weapon attack. At higher levels, it could instead occupy a higher slot indefinitely, such as 3rd-slot for about 3d6 extra damage. (At this level, the Extra Attack feature might come online, making the extra damage toward twice as good.) The radiant damage is always on, like a superhero power.



Designing ongoing damage spells to "occupy" a spell slot for an always-on effect, might be the best way to think about ongoing damage spells, generally.

The Occupant mechanic can also apply to nondamage effects that are always on, such as force armor.

 

[tetrasodium]

I love cantrips. Their at-will magic makes my characters feel magical.

Heh, one of the reasons I can no longer play 3e is its lack of cantrips. I dont want to spend the game shooting mundane crossbolts when I want to play a magical character.



That said.

Cantrips seem to replace a number of ongoing damage concepts. Even some of the 5e ongoing damage spells feel more like a cantrip. Consider the Divine Favor spell: it makes weapon attacks deal radiant damage. This could be a cantrip, like Shillelagh, that can add the ability to the cantrip damage, while transfiguring the damage type into radiant. The cantrip could use a slot to augment extra damage to each attack.

I kinda like them as well but the implementation of a cradle to grave primary caster attribute at will no resource cost attack that scales by character level with no attached item responsible* is just too good in too many ways. It squeezes out too many areas of the game from relevance as a result. The DoT type spells that deal critical damage type round after round is one example, the value of limited use scrolls & wands being nullified if those aren't top shelf or problematically balanced is another. Having wands recharge rather than deplete just turbo charges the problem cantrips apply to them.

If casters started with a cantrip wand(s) that let them cast/power the lowest tier of cantrips & needed to get wands rings or whatever to cast later tiers they would have treasure that was important to them. If casters only had x cabtrip casts per Y-period that too would provide an important need in the form of equipment to extend that with more casts of something. If base cantrip damage was trash it would provide room for equipment to improve that. None of those are true though & cantrips just wind up being a glut of good that overwhelms a lot of stuff

* Yes I know a player technically needs a focus item but that's just a pass/fail boolean thing not a wand or whatever acquired through adventuring or similar. Barring edge cases like "you wake up in prison" scenarios almost always available with no need to consider it.