D&D 4E making a witch in 4e

[Voss]

Where do you draw this from? I would see it as directly opposite. Witches would be star related (astrology) while Warlocks are typically classified as the "evil" flip-side and the demon worshipers. Just curious.

This is the prime example of how the terms are different to everyone.

Probably the Malleus Maleficarum, pretty much the first defining text on witches, shaping the entire concept and debate from the 15th century on. (and all the books on witchcraft and demonology that came after it). Witches with a devil pact are largely the only interpretation with a historical basis until the 19th c. Out of respect for the board rules, I won't go into the modern conception.

Of course, keep in mind that this all revolves around the western concept of witch. Though odds are that wasn't an issue anyway.

 

[hamishspence]

How about the many fairy tale versions?

Beginning with Grimms, and Hans Christan Anderson. what is the common theme thoughout these books?

I would say, transformation magic (sea witch, various curses that transform people into animals, part-time or full time. Circe from Homer is another example of this)

 

[Cam Banks]

Out of respect for the board rules, I won't go into the modern conception.

I think you're wise not to, speaking as a Wiccan.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[Greenfaun]

Probably the Malleus Maleficarum, pretty much the first defining text on witches, shaping the entire concept and debate from the 15th century on. (and all the books on witchcraft and demonology that came after it). Witches with a devil pact are largely the only interpretation with a historical basis until the 19th c.

Well, yes, sort of, but the Malleus Maleficarum was a work of propaganda and fearmongering that was clearly written to be a tool in destroying heterodoxy and shore up the authority of the Pope. Before the Malleus and the Inquisition, the holidays and traditions that were a remnant of European Paganism were generally considered to be harmless heathen nonsense, not devil worship. Yes, huge generalization, but c'mon, it's a gaming forum.

Most importantly, it wasn't a work of anthropology. There are reports by Roman historians and early church scholars that actually described the rites of druids and other pagan priests/worshipers which are more historically useful. Just like you shouldn't use the Protocols of the Elders of Zion as a work of scholarly study on Judaism, you shouldn't read the Malleus and consider yourself familiar with what real Medieval European pagans actually did.

All that said, I absolutely agree that the word "witch" has been dominated by connotations of devil-worship in the past few centuries, and the Malleus and Inquisition (and Puritans a century and change later) are the reason.


As for the OP's question, I agree that it all depends on one's concept of witchcraft. Mine, for instance, would be a rural and rustic "wise woman" trained in a mistress-apprentice tradition with a pragmatic mixture of supernatural tricks. Primal magic, psionics, arcane rituals, herbal medicines and poisons, maybe even divine magic from moon-worship or following the green goddess and horned god. As for the classes available in the PHB, seems like fey-pact warlock mixed with cleric might be the way to go, or just make your own.

Also, yay Granny Weatherwax. And Tiffany Aching.

 

[Quickleaf]

Yeah, I've been strugglig with how broadly "witch" is defined. I tend to agree with Khaalis' conception of a witch with her abilities of enchanting, cursing, divination, and charms - feels like a controller.

I think we should start class design with the concept we are trying to implement.

Interesting stuff. Here's my take on a couple witches...

Morgan le Fay
- fey origin
- scheming enchantress
- access to magical objects
- led Arthur to Avalon (extraplanar travel?)

Circe
- divine nymph sorceress
- herbalist/poisoner
- potions cause bestial transformation
- bestowed immortality
- atoned Argonauts

 

[Zaruthustran]

I'd say Warlock, multiclassed deeply with Wizard.

The Warlock gives curses and the close relationship with supernatural entities, both hallmarks of witches (as I understand them, anyway). Depending on the pact, you could be more of a charmer and less of a blaster. Dipping into Wizard will give access to more blatantly "magical" spells.

Oh, and for sure get into ritual casting. That's definitely witchy.

 

[Sadrik]

How about this: a "primal" pact Warlock. Just create the pact yourself.

 

[Quickleaf]

I agree that a Warlock-Wizard multiclass would fit the concept well, but I'm trying to find a way to bridge the rich flavor with controller mechanics...

What if Witches have ties to the Primordials? Maybe that's why the organized religions of the world mistrust them? I don't want to tie witches to the Elemental Chaos, but the idea of a witch worshipping a forgotten entity fits the concept.

Anyhow, I think using Wizard as a model for the witch could work well, just changing the class features like this...

Witch (Primal Controller)

Replace Arcane Implement Mastery with Sympathy: When you have a sympathetic connection to a subject (friendship, a tuft of hair, a lifted footprint, an object they made, their kidnapped sibling), your magic is harder to resist and has increased range.

Replace Cantrips with Ley Lines: Your magic is tied to the seasons and resevoirs of earth energy. At auspicious times (equinoxes, solstices, new/full moons), your magic is boosted. For example, during a new moon your powers of stealth increase. Likewise, you can tap into the energy of power sites and boost your magic there. For example, at the site of an epic battle your powers of communing with the dead increase.

Keep Ritual Casting.

Call their powers "Rites" for the Primal power source. Focus powers on debuffing, curses, bestial transformation (of others), enchantments, chronomancy, and divination. For example, the "Summerlands" power might slow or accelerate the effects of time in an area. Utility powers include herbalism, coven craft, accelerate healing in natural setting, find the path, longevity/changing apparent age, increase fertility, or cloud minds.

 

[Dinkeldog]

Nanny McPhee?

 

[sirwmholder]

In order to say how would I create a witch in 4e I'd have to first determine the intent. If it is a class available to players then I might would take the time to do what most everyone has suggested. But if a witch solely exist as an NPC then I believe the 4e way of handling monsters is give them what abilities you want them to have. Keep in mind something alien and weird that the PC's can't do adds a layer of genuine depth to the encounter.

Just how I see it,
William Holder