Making the Ice Storm spell suck less

[Merova]

Excellent Analysis

Keep in mind that the elemental resistances balance out, more or less. Cold and Fire are just about equally prevalant in the MM, though there are less Cold spells in the PHB.

Ice Storm also lasts a full round, so it creates an area you don't want to pass through (good for creating choke points) and even if they do want to pass through, movement is halved.

The comparison for damage worsens as Fireball and Ice Storm level, as seen below:

Fireball - avg damage at 10th level (35) with save for half
Ice Storm - avg damage at 10th level (18.5) without a save

Hi all!

Sweet analysis, Technik! You've really pointed out some interesting possibilities and differences. Thanks!

Personally, I think that Ice Storm is a pretty decent spell, but I'd suggest the following applications to give it a bit more "oomph."

1) Allow it to effect objects as well as creatures within the area of effect. The "bludgeoning" damage will make it more effective at bypassing hardness than a typical "energy" attack. This could be especially useful against siege equipment or in shipboard encounters.

2) Allow the cylinder to create a zone of coverage or concealment, maybe around 50% due to the falling hailstones.

3) Restrict all movement within the area to half speed; this'll really mess up poor fliers.

And don't forget the Concentration checks for spellcasting within the area.

Hope that helps out. Thanks for reading.

---Merova

 

[wolfen]

And allow it to become permanent with the Permanency spell.


wolfen

 

[Destil]

I've folded sleet storm back into ice storm, and made ice storm scale a little with caster leve.l Ice storm is fine at 7th caster level compaired to other 4th level damage spells which would generally deal 7d6. At 8th-10th level though things are a little off. And I like having both back in the same spell, since it help explain why it's a 4th level spell rather than 3rd.

Sleet Storm/Ice Storm: Sleet storm is not used
Ice Storm has two versions (chosen at casting)
Hail Storm: As Ice Storm. If the caster is at least 8th level it deals 3d6 cold + 3d6 bludgeoning damage, and if the caster is at least 10th level it deals 3d6 cold + 4d6 bludgeoning.
Sleet Storm: As the 3rd level spell, but the duration is instead 10 rounds + 1 round/level.

 

[Destil]

Re: My .02 Comparison

Ice Storm also lasts a full round, so it creates an area you don't want to pass through (good for creating choke points) and even if they do want to pass through, movement is halved.

Not really. Unless this has been changed in 3.5 spells that deal damage over more than one turn do so on the same iniatiave the're cast. And the 3.5 SRD version never mentions damage as someone enters the area of effect. Since the spell only lasts 1 round it would only ever deal damage once, and only the listen penelity and the speed reduction would apply to anyone who enters the area.

 

[Technik4]

Unless this has been changed in 3.5 spells that deal damage over more than one turn do so on the same iniatiave the're cast. And the 3.5 SRD version never mentions damage as someone enters the area of effect. Since the spell only lasts 1 round it would only ever deal damage once, and only the listen penelity and the speed reduction would apply to anyone who enters the area.

Yeowch. Of course it would be weird to have rules for essentially 1 spell. I think I would still damage anyone moving into/through the area (House Rule), and I'm thinking of limiting ALL movement (not just land) as those falling chunks of ice may warrant a slower flying speed (within the radius of course).

Also, you didn't specify what you can choose if you are only a 7th level caster Destil, does it do the listed amount for damage?

Technik

 

[Greenfield]

As a general note, the 5 D6 of no-save damage is about the same as a 10D6 Fireball, with the Save made. After a certain point in character/game progression you come to expect the opponents to make the Save a lot.

The average damage is 17.5 points, which is coincidentally the exact same damage as a Magic Missile at its top end.

And I know it's silly to react to a 16 year old mis-statement, but maybe I'm OCD or something. (Though there's very little disorderly about OCD, and referenced properly it should be called "CDO". That way it's alphabetized...)... Anyway, you can have a Fireball reach a 40 foot height, same as Ice Storm, but the footprint at ground level gets really small. Technically/mathematically it will cover exactly zero squares on the ground if set off at twenty feet in the air. It's a ball sitting ona table. Minimum surface contact. And the area covered at the forty foot mark is also zero, for the same reason.

I've used this in games as a way to limit the effective size/area of the spell, or as a way to take out opponents with it while avoiding a downed companion: Set it to detonate 22 feet up (or 25 if you feel he need to "snap to grid" in the air), and any Medium creature in the area gets hit, while Small and/or prone characters are safe.

I've occasionally limited spell use for some area effects by requiring that the caster be able to see the ground level target point. Call Avalanche is an example, since the effect is specific to ground area covered/buried in snow. Over all though it's a good idea to realize that not all DMs routinely think in terms of three-dimensional shapes for spells, and simply presume a "standard" footprint, as laid out in the Area of Effect templates in the book. To such hard-liners any attempt to use them as anything other than "Ground Burst" is tantamount to cheating.

 

[Immoralkickass]

Holy balls 16 year necro!

 

[Krachek]

Overall dealing damage with spell often suck in 5ed.
Unless you have a high number of target you’re better to let the fighter do the job and use control spell.
Ice storm have a nice control effect with difficult terrain, it is more important than damage most of the time.

 

[Hussar]

That's one impressive bot.

 

[Coroc]

Whew, this thread needed a 9th level true resurrection spell, since it has been dormant for so long. 5th level raise thread and even 7th level threadsurrection would not have worked on that one